66

peared to object in this instance. It was a fact, that the very clergyman of the parish was a most strenuous advocate for the measure; and many who last year had discountenanced it, had since given it their approbation. The parish contains 50,000 souls; it has only one parish church, and four chapels; the Presbytery, and all who had really an interest in the matter, had testified their sense of the expediency and necessity of an addition being made to that number;-and who were those who have appeared to oppose it? Two or three, or four leading members of other chapels out of the parish. What they said, or meant to say, was, our seats will not let so well after another chapel has been erected; our stipends must of necessity fall off, and, in short, we want a monopoly of Gaelic preaching in the city of Glasgow." What they had always laboured to impress upon the minds of the petitioners was this, "our churches are empty, and since we and the other original proprietors attend so very ill ourselves, cannot you walk in and occupy our places?" Was ever there heard so monstrous and unreasonable a proposition? There must be some reason for the empty condition of those churches, and a very good reason might be assigned. But supposing the petitioners were agreed to supply the lack of zeal in the present congregations of those chapels, still 1345 of their number (a good congregation of itself) would remain unprovided for. There was this other cir cumstance, that the northern Gaelic was used in those chapels, while the petitioners were conversant only with the western Gaelic. It might be said that it would be a very ab. surd thing to provide separate churches for all the dialects spoken in Scotland; and that it would be unreasonable to prefer the broad Scotch of Edinburgh to the more classical dialect of Glasgow.-(A laugh.) But sometimes a difference of dialect amounted to a difference of tongue; as, for example, the Yorkshire and Somersetshire differ so widely, that a native of the one county could not make use of, or even understand the language spoken in the other. And the fact was, that it was found extremely difficult to teach a west Highlander in northern Gaelic. He was aware there were many sensible men (he always excepted the present company) who had the misfortune to preach to empty benches.-(Great laughter.) There were many respectable clergymen who found themselves deserted by their people, while other churches were crowded; and who might keep open the door from one year to another before another hive would swarm into it.

There

was no preventing of this-people would form their own opinions of ministers, and

some men would rather abstain from public worship entirely than contaminate themselves by entering the church of a minister whom they disliked.-This was very capricious perhaps; but how absurd was the remedy here recommended! No more churches were to be built, because there were some which people do not choose to enter. He professed that he did not like this treating Christian men like cattle -this driving them into shambles, merely because they are empty.—(Hear, hear.)He would rather take advantage of the follies of men-to attach them to the Church, than by unreasonably crossing them, drive them into secession. He had often been surprised at the policy pursued by this House in applications of this nature. It was the policy of all associations, moral, political, or religious, of all wise men, in short, to gain as many converts to their cause as possible. But here, when a body apply to be connected with the Church by the most durable ties, praying for leave to be subjected to its authority and discipline, they are treated with a harshness of tone and supercilious disdain as if they were suing the generosity of the House for some mighty and unreasonable favour. He had even heard it said within these walls, that the people applying for leave to erect a Chapel of Ease were half dissenters in their hearts, than which there could not be a more cruel insult upon the people of Scotland, whose attachment to their national Church was passionate and prevalent. He concluded by most eloquently calling upon the House to comply with the prayer of these poor people, his clients, who, from a devotion to the interests of the Church, had built a chapel out of their slender means, in the hope of no other earthly reward than the approbation of the Assembly; who had undergone all the fatiguing preparatives to obtaining that approbation, and who kept their zeal for the establishment alive in the midst of all sorts of difficulties and discouragements.

Mr. P. Robertson, for the Managers of the other Gaelic Chapels, denied the accuracy of the statements which had been made with regard to the Highland population of Glasgow. There was no evidence of the number of that population before the Assembly. In regard to the enquiry of the Presbytery of Glasgow into the genuineness of the signatures to the petition, he contended that they had been very easily satisfied on this point. There were already three Gaelic Chapels of Ease in Glasgow, and there existed no necessity for a fourth. These chapels could accommodate 3413 persons. Last year there were 963 seats unoccupied; and this year there

were 1381 seats unlet. So that within 700 of the whole number of the petitioners could be accommodated in the chapels already erected; and if they deducted from the gross number 752 servant girls, who might sit in other churches with their masters, they would find that there was no want of church accommodation for the Highland population of Glasgow. There were debts on these chapels amounting to 1.2000; and the managers were bound besides to pay salaries to their ministers. Their only means of doing so was from the revenue arising from the letting of the seats. The Assembly were bound to protect them in the constitution which they had granted. The consequence of their sanctioning the erection of another chapel would be the ruin of some of those already in existence. There were, he contended, not too few, but too many Gaelic chapels in Glasgow; and the plain fact was, if they established another solely to gratify the petitioners, the result would be the ruin of his clients. The necessity of erecting this chapel had been urged on account of the differences of dialect which existed among the Highlanders. This appeared to him to be a most extraordinary reason. The Assembly would not surely grant the erection of this chapel for the simple reason of gratifying the petitioners with the soft tones of the west, in place of the more rugged tones of the north. It was a fact of general notoriety, that many of the parishes in the west Highlands were supplied by ministers from the north. There were also many Gaelic ministers who had acquired the language from study; and although they had their dialects neither from the north nor the west, were yet emphatic preachers. He insisted that there was not a Highland population in Glasgow sufficient to fill another Gaelic chapel; and if the Assembly agreed to the erection of a new one, it must issue either in its fall, or on the ruin of one or other of those already established. It would be far better for the petitioners to prevent the erection of this chapel; since, in the course of time, some less popular preacher than the one they had now in view might reduce them to the same circumstances in which his clients were now placed. They were urged to this measure from the fear of the petitioners going over to the Secession; but they were bound to protect his clients in the constitution which they had given them, and the more particularly, as the number of seats unlet had increased from 963 to 1381. Were they to erect this new chapel, it was possible that in time some of the others might have a pastor with no flock; and the individuals who

had become bound for their stipend would have it to pay out of their own pocketsas, he was informed, had in one instance already been the case, where, but for the generosity of one individual, the pastor would have been without a stipend. He concluded by stating his conviction that the erection of this chapel would be the virtual suppression of one or other of those already

in existence.

Mr. Cockburn, in reply, said it had been admitted on the other side, that the sittings in the Gaelic chapels were only sufficient for about 3000 people; and no man acquainted with Glasgow would say that that was accommodation for one-half of the Gaelic population of that city. He begged the Assembly to observe, that the petition before them was a new one with new sig. natures; and after these had been scrutinized by the Presbytery, only thirty had been found objectionable. The debt on the Duke Street chapel seemed the sole ground of objection to his clients' petition. That debt amounted to L.850, and a happy chapel it was that it had no more. The interest upon this debt corresponded to L.34 annually. Few concerns of the kind had so small a debt. The Gorbals chapel had withdrawn their opposition. The Ingram Street chapel had only eighty-four vacant sittings, and no debt whatever. The only debt, then, was that of Duke Street, which amounted to only L.34 of interest. If the Assembly wished to see this debt paid off, let them erect the new chapel. All the others were now dosing under the security of the old monopolists. Only let this one be erected, and if it did not infuse a new soul into the others he should be much surprised.

Dr. Gibb of Glasgow stated, that the Presbytery had recommended the erection of this new chapel, because it was their conviction that another place of worship was necessary. He defended the scrutiny made by the Presbytery into the signatures of the petitioners; it had been conducted with the greatest pains and anxiety, and had been only found inaccurate in a very few instances. He was himself at the time convinced that another chapel would be useful, and was still under the same convic. tion.

Mr. Thomson of Dundee said the Assembly ought to dismiss every allegation which was not substantiated by the papers on its table. The Presbytery of Glasgow had been unanimous in recommending the erection of another Chapel of Ease there, and he had never seen a case more completely investigated. He moved that they should grant the prayer of the petition, and

remit it to a committee to draw up regulations for the government of the chapel, according to the rules of the Church.

Dr. Inglis observed, that the general principle by which the Assembly was guid. ed in such cases as the present, was to grant the erection of chapels of ease whenever the necessity for them was fully made out, and to refuse them where this necessity was not shown; but they would not agree to such a measure to gratify the caprice of individuals, and denied that the necessity was made out in this case. He felt it necessary to move that the prayer of the petition be refused; at same time, if it should be made to appear that a chapel of an ordinary kind was wanted, he would cordially agree to its erection.

Mr. McLeod was also of opinion that a case was not made out for the petitioners.

Mr. Macfarlane of Polmont observed, that if there was no disposition to refuse chapels where necessary, he thought there never was a case more clearly made out than the present, and the Assembly would not certainly refuse it. He cordially se'conded the motion of Mr. Thomson.

Dr. Nicol said, no other circumstances but necessity could justify these anomalous establishments; and, in the present case, he did not think that necessity appeared. Mr. R. Thomson, advocate, spoke at considerable length in favour of the peti

tion.

Mr. Eisdale of Perth said, the Assembly must be aware that the chapel in Melville Street was already built; and if they refused to sanction it, the petitioners must either sell it to the dissenters, or become dissenters themselves.

Dr. Chalmers said, he would not enter into many of the fine and finical distinctions he had heard urged on this subject. What had been held in military, held also in intellectual tactics. It was bad policy to extend the line of defence too far. By so doing they only weakened it, and added to its vulnerable points. He was for the friends of the chapel keeping within their impregnable fortress, and not trusting to the trifling defence of outposts. He offered to give up every argument but one, which was the true basis of their plea, that if they erected the new chapel to-morrow, there would still be a great overplus of Highland population unprovided for. He was not furnished with any positive enumeration, but he could affirm, that within the limits of Glasgow there were numbers of Highland families who had no place of sitting in either church or chapel. There was, therefore, no want of material for crowding this and all the other chapels of Glasgow. Of these 2000 petitioners they

had found accommodation, in the other chapels, for 1300, and were disputing how the fractional difference could be disposed of. It was seldom they would witness so good a forthcoming population; and should they refuse to gratify them, they could anticipate nothing but their loss to the establishment; and what was more melancholy still, a great body, who might be kept together by their common attachment, were in danger of falling away from Sabbath observances altogether.

Dr. Mearns spoke against the petition. He would refuse it on the ground that there was sufficient accommodation for the petitioners in the other churches. If an application had been made for an additional English chapel, he would agree to it.

Dr. Cook was also for refusing the peti tion, because the necessity was not proved.

Mr. Moncreiff, advocate, defended, at some length, and with singular ability, the claims of the petitioners. He thought a case of imperious necessity was made out, and they should not hesitate one instant in granting the prayer of the petition.

Mr. M'Neil, advocate, was of the same opinion.

Dr. Gibb begged to remind the Assembly that this petition was laid before them last year; they had remitted it to the Presbytery to make certain inquiries, with the understanding that, if they gave a favourable report, the prayer would be granted. He therefore considered the Assembly pledged on this subject.

Dr. Nicol denied that any pledge was implied in the proceedings of last year. Mr. Wigham supported the petition. The question was then put to the voteGrant or Refuse-when there appeared for Grant 99 Refuse

Majority

71

-28

The Assembly then proceeded to the consideration of the petition and appeal of the Hon. Mrs. Hamilton of Bargany, and her presentee, against the sentence of the Presbytery of Stranraer, sustaining a presentation by Sir H. Dalrymple, in favour of Mr. Thomas Hill, to the church and parish of Ballantrae.

Mr. Robertson appeared for Mrs. Hamilton, and shortly contended, that, as the question of civil right between that lady and Sir H. H. Dalrymple was at present before the House of Lords, the Assembly ought to delay proceedings till it was settled.

Mr. Tawse, for Mrs. Hamilton's presentce, simply stated, that the rights of his client were bound up in those of the patron who gave the presentation, and must stand or fall by them.

Mr. Jeffrey, for Sir H. H. Dalrymple, and Mr. Hill, the presentee, went rather more into detail, and maintained that the Presbytery had done its duty;-it having only sustained a presentation from a patron who had previously given six different presentations unchallenged, one of them to the very church in question.

Dr. Nicol moved that the sentence be affirmed, the presentee being aware that no judgment of the Assembly could invest him with civil right.-Agreed to.

The petition and appeal by the Rev. Mr. McGregor Stirling, minister of Port, and Robert Blair, one of his elders, against the sentence of the Synod of Perth and Stir ling, was then taken into consideration.

Mr. Jeffrey, on the part of the appellants, gave a brief statement of some circumstances which had taken place subse quent to the judgment of the Synod, whereby it appeared that an arrangement had been entered into, by which Mr. Stirling was to demit his office into the hands of an assistant and successor. The learned gentleman concluded with praying for a reversal of the sentence of deposition.-To this the Assembly agreed.

The overture from the Synod of Aberdeen, on the funds of the Church, was, on the motion of Mr. Farquharson, sent to a Committee.

The petition from the Presbytery of Deer, arising out of some correspondence with the procurator relative to the manse of Aberdour, in Aberdeenshire, was unanimously dismissed.

The Assembly then adjourned.

Saturday, May 29.-The Moderator intimated that he had received a letter from Sir John Sinclair, along with a Prospectus of an Analysis of the Statistical Account of Scotland. This letter stated that considerable progress had been made in the completion of the work, and it was probable it would be published in the course of

the year.

Dr. Inglis stated, that Sir John Sinclair had made a present of the copy-right of the Statistical Account of Scotland to the Society for the benefit of the sons of the clergy; and it had lately been proposed by that society to publish an abridgment of that work, brought down to the present time. The Commission of the General Assembly was then appointed, Sir Henry Mon. creiff to act for the moderator.

Dr. Brunton reported from the commit tee on church accommodation.

. Mr. James Moncreiff, advocate, read and gave in reasons of dissent from the judgment of the Assembly in the case of Principal Macfarlane.-Ordered to be kept in relentis.

On the motion of Dr. Nicol, the overtures relative to the state of education in the West Indies were referred to the committee on the Canada petition.

The report of the collector of the widows fund was made by Sir Henry Moncreiff. The business, he said, just went on as formerly. Notwithstanding certain unfavourable circumstances, the funds continued the same, and the annuities the same.

The thanks of the Assembly were voted to Sir Henry Moncreiff for the persevering zeal, fidelity, and tenderness, with which he continued to discharge the duties of collector; the moderator remarking, that he would not think the less of this mark of respect, that he got it annually.

The Assembly then proceeded to the consideration of the petition and the appeal of the Rev. Thomas Turnbull, minister of Anwoth, appellant, against a sentence of the Synod of Galloway, affirming the judgment of the Presbytery of Kirkcudbright, sustaining the protest and complaint of M. and D. Brown, against the finding of the Kirk Session of Anwoth.

Mr. Turnbull appeared for himself; Mr. Wilson, Stranraer, appeared for the Synod of Galloway; and Mr. M'Lellan of Kelton, and Mr. Gillespie of Kells, appeared for the Presbytery of Kirkcudbright.

After some discussion, a motion was made and unanimously agreed to. It declared that the carting of hay, like every other worldly employment on the Sabbath, if unnecessary, was a violation of the Lord's day; that in the particular circumstances of the case, it appeared there was some reason to suppose that the arrival of the cattle was unexpected; that no sentence of censure ought to be pronounced; and that the Assembly highly approve of the conduct of the Kirk Session watching over the interests of religion.

The Assembly then took up the reference from the Presbytery of Skye, relative to the refusal or improper delay on the part of the minister to baptize childrenparticularly the child of Alexander Campbell.

Reverend James Souter, one of the members of Assembly for the Presbytery of Skye, narrated at some length the facts of the complaint.

The Assembly unanimously came to the resolution to order Mr. M'Leod to baptize Alexander Campbell's child, and to direct the Presbytery to see that the ordinance of baptism be duly performed in the parish of Bracadale.

The Assembly next proceeded to hear the petition and appeal of James Rankin, shoemaker in Paisley, who had been laid under the sentence of the lesser excommu.

nication by the Kirk-session of the Low Kirk of Paisley, which sentence had been affirmed by the Presbytery of Paisley, and subsequently in part by the Synod of Glasgow and Ayr.

The Assembly, after hearing Duncan M'Neil, Esq. advocate, for the appellant, Dr. M Gill for the Synod, and Mr. Jonathan Ranken for the Presbytery, sustained the appeal, and reversed the sentence of the Kirk Session, and also ordained the record of the proceedings before the Low Kirk Session to be expunged.

The Assembly then adjourned. Monday, May 31.-Mr. Eisdale complained of the manner in which, not only his own speech, but those of other members, in the debate of Thursday last, had been reported in the Edinburgh newspapers. Some routine business having been dispatched, the Assembly received the procurator's account of the Church's funds, which he regretted to state were not in the most favourable condition. The Church had accumulated a debt of L.1183 sterling, and had not been able to grant aid in a single case in which it had been requested during the last year. He saw no chance of the Church getting out of its embarrassing situation, unless all the presbyteries would come forward in a more equal and liberal manner.

Several petitions for aid were disposed of. On the motion of Dr. Brunton, Bailie Waugh was appointed printer to the Church, in place of Mr. Peter Hill, resigned.

The Committee on the means of extending religion in Canada, to whom a petition on the means of extending religion in the West Indies had been referred, reported that they did not think it prudent to take any notice of this overture at the present time; of which report the Assembly approved.

The report of the committee on additional churches was received and approved; the committee re-appointed; and the thanks of the House conferred on Dr. Inglis, the

convener.

The report of the committee on prison discipline and burgh schools was approved, and the committee re-appointed.

On receiving the report of the committee on small livings, the House recorded its gratitude for the regard and affection which it appeared that his Majesty's Government had recently extended towards the Church.

Dr. Singers reported from the Committee appointed on the Presbyterial reports on schools. On the report from the Presbytery of Lanark, a member of that Presbytery was fully heard. He detailed the controversy with Mr. Owen, arising out of the refusal to allow the Presbytery to visit the Lanark schools. The Assembly approved of the conduct of the members of the Presbytery, and appoint a Committee to confer with his Majesty's counsel on the steps proper to be taken with respect to the Manager of the Lanark schools.

On the petition respecting Mr. Muir, the Assembly waved the consideration of the sentence of the Synod of Dumfries, and reverse the sentence of the Presbytery of Langholm; inasmuch as Mr. Muir was neither a licentiate nor a probationer of this Church during the period that he followed divisive courses, the Assembly find, that no alien certificate as to his steadiness during that period is competent, but permit the Presbytery to take Mr. Muir on his trials, after he has passed six years in religious and exemplary conduct, and in uniform and steady adherence to the faith of this Church, agreeably to the Act of the General Assembly 1806.

The Commission was appointed to meet to-morrow at 12; and the Committee on the Royal Bounty to meet on Wednesday, at the same hour.

A Committee was appointed to revise the minute-book, and the minutes of this sederunt were then read.

The Moderator having delivered a short address, the Assembly was dissolved in the usual way, and the next General Assembly appointed to meet on the 19th May,

1825.