agreed on so that it will be between 4 and 6 cents, or to use a figure of 5, which is an average of those prices. Now, if those 5 cents a pound or $5 a hundredweight on 20 million hundredweights, under this proposal, that would add to the American citizen here $100 million in increased cost.

We are going to reduce the cost of the present program from $180 million, by their bookkeeping shenanigans-we are going to reduce it by $50 million. That still leaves $130 million in there.

Mr. STALBAUM. Is it not 20 million times 5 cents, is that not $10 million?

Mr. CARTER. Twenty million

Mr. SMITH. That is $5 a hundredweight.

Mr. CARTER. That is 200 million pounds, instead of 20 million.

Mr. SMITH. That is 20 million hundredweights of rice, and that is $100 million. I made that calculation here.

Mr. STALBAUM. I had some figures on that yesterday. I will not quarrel with you on it.

Mr. SMITH. No, sir; that is $5 a sack and the 20 million sacks would come under this.

Mr. JONES of Missouri. I dislike to interrupt you, but we have had a bell for a call to the floor. So we are going to have to break into this now and take a recess, and be back here at 1:30 o'clock.

Mr. SMITH. Could I just say one more word?

Mr. JONES of Missouri. You will have to make it pretty short.

Mr. SMITH. I think that these figures are correct. If it is $100 million, you still have $130 million, the total amount to the American citizen here which will be $230 million now, instead of $180 million. Mr. JONES of Missouri. We will come back here at 1:30.

Mr. SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., a recess was taken until 1:30 p.m., the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

Mr. JONES of Missouri. The committee will come to order. Do you have any other witnesses there, Mr. Carter?

STATEMENT OF L. C. CARTER, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL MANAGER, ARKANSAS RICE GROWERS COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATION, STUTTGART, ARK.-Resumed

Mr. CARTER. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have the privilege of introducing the delegation that came up from Arkansas. Some of them will make very, very brief statements. Others will stand and be recognized. I am going to stand over here so I can find them.

From the First Congressional District of Arkansas, and I might say, gentlemen, that we grow rice in Arkansas in three of the congressional districts, in Congressman Gathings' district we have the following people here, and I will call their names. We would like for them to stand. If they have a word they would like to put in the record we would like to hear it.

Joe L. Burns of Jonesboro.
Mr. BURNS. No statement.

Mr. CARTER. G. E. Stewart of Wynne.
Mr. STEWART. No statement.

Mr. CARTER. Paul Wolf of Fisher.

Mr. WOLF. No statement.

Mr. CARTER. Leonard Sitzer of Weiner.

STATEMENT OF LEONARD SITZER, WEINER, ARK.

Mr. SITZER. All I have to say, Mr. Chairman, is all the farmers in our area are opposed to the proposed farm plan.

Mr. CARTER. Paul Moore of Success.

Mr. MOORE. No statement.

Mr. CARTER. W. S. Simpson of Parkin.

Mr. SIMPSON. No statement.

Mr. CARTER. Lloyd Diebold of Hickory Ridge.

STATEMENT OF LLOYD DIEBOLD, HICKORY RIDGE, ARK.

Mr. DIEBOLD. I represent the Hickory Ridge Grain Growers, consisting of about 200 families, and also a lending institution that loans some $13 million to rice farmers.

Pardon me for a personal statement, but I have two boys. One boy is an insurance salesman and the other one, I mortgaged my farm and took him to Mississippi and bought a 600-acre rice farm in Mississippi for him, and any reduction in the rice program cutting acres or the price for the boy that bought that farm on such a close margin, that he will lose the farm.

All of my members want me to oppose this legislation. Thank you. Mr. CARTER. Now from the Second Congressional District we have the following people:

Erik F. Jensen, of Stuttgart.

STATEMENT OF ERIK F. JENSEN, STUTTGART, ARK.

Mr. JENSEN. I would just like to say a word. Of course we are only interested in economy, and we have got to economize, because we would be in bad shape if we don't know what it is. They are concerned about our national debt. So many members say why do we get that reduction in income tax and now get this burden put on us which will be much worse than it was before. They would rather leave income tax as it is, it means so much to them, and it would help out.

Further, this $50 million, they seem to say that is figured out on the basis of what domestic consumption is, but certainly domestic consumption will drop so that figure will not be an actual figure, I am sure, because it is a fact we know it will drop because you cannot raise prices and expect commodities to sell.

It proves itself pretty well in the auto industry, because with all the foreign makes, the people are not going to pay these big prices when they can get something that does the job for a little less money, and I think that proves the point pretty well.

Thank you.

Mr. CARTER. Stewart Jesup, of Almyra.

STATEMENT OF STEWART JESSUP, ALMYRA, ARK.

Mr. JESSUP. Mr. Chairman, I am Stewart Jessup, of Almyra, Ark., a ricegrower, a member of the ASC county committee. I would like to say that this proposal has possibly caused more discussion among the farmers than anything that has come along in my memory, and I would also like to say on behalf of the Arkansas County Bureau, about 1,600 members, which has done quite a lot of work, putting forth an effort in the country to get the facts of this thing out, discuss it with the farmers, that the farmers in Arkansas can't see where there is anything in this proposal for them. I make that statement on behalf of our president, who at the last moment couldn't be here because of a change in plans. Also from the standpoint of administering this program, which has been touched on numerous times before in this testimony, the ASC committeemen are not looking forward to this, not from the standpoint of the extra work that it is going to cause, but from the standpoint that it is virtually impossible to do a job that you can go home and sleep on, because you just can't get the information that you need to set this up in a way that we would like to have it set up. We don't have those figures available. It has been pointed out before sometimes the biggest liar gets the biggest share.

I think we are unalterably opposed to this title III, the rice producers of Arkansas County. We just can't find those folks that are in favor of it.

STATEMENT OF CARL GARRICH, CARLISLE, ARK.

Mr. GARRICH. I am the president of the Lonoke County Association and also president of the Lonoke County Farm Bureau. I represent about 500 members, in excess of 500 members.

We have a total membership of 1,050 Farm Bureau members, and about 500 of them are rice farmers, and over a group of meetings we firmly oppose this title III in this bill, and I would like very much to be able to go home with a very encouraging answer.

Thank you.

Mr. JONES of Missouri. Thank you.

Mr. CARTER. Melvin Hula, of Hazen, Ark.

STATEMENT OF MELVIN HULA, HAZEN, ARK.

Mr. HULA. I am from Hazen, Ark., president of the Hazen Grain Dryer Cooperative, also of the Hazen County Farm Bureau.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to state, hoping I don't repeat too much of the information you already have here today, that all of our neighbors, all of my neighbors in the town of Hazen, which is about 1,400 population, as well as rice farmers, are opposed to this program because they already have seen some repercussions from this.

The implement dealer in our town is the vice president of the Midsouth Implement Dealers Association, and he told me just a few days ago that farmers are already being concerned as to what will happen

to them in the next year or two, if this program should be enacted. I would like to see that we will be able to keep our present program. Thank you.

Mr. JONES of Missouri. Thank you.

Mr. CARTER. Joe Skarna of Des Arc.

STATEMENT OF JOE SKARNA, DES ARC, ARK.

Mr. SKARNA. I am Joe Skarna from Des Arc, director of Des Are Grain Dryers, chairman of the Farmers Home Administration of Prairie County.

I know you have touched all of these things two or three or four times. There has been little said about the effect of reduction of income to the farmers and the community as a whole.

I would like for you to think of that a little. My town that I call home is a little town of 1,700. We have got about 200 rice farmers ir. our dryer organization representing approximately 10,000 acres of rice, nearly 900-million-bushel production.

If you take 10 percent of the value of that rice off, why we are talking about $200,000 or we are talking about 10 percent reduction in acreage, we are talking about 204,000, and the effect on the economy in a community like Des Arc, with 1,700 people, an impact like that is to be felt.

The chamber of commerce tries continuously, and I am a member. to get interested in this thing for the community. Yet we could possibly lose more through this than we could by failure to acquire industry. I wish you would think about our town.

I wish to say all the farmers to a man are opposed to this. They did not say it is all right for you to go up there. They said by all means go up there. They said by all means go up there and say a word for us.

Mr. JONES of Missouri. We have just been honored with the presence of one our most distinguished colleagues in the Congress, the Honorable Oren Harris, chairman of the Interstate and Foreign Commerce Committee. We are mighty happy to have you, Congressman Harris. If you care to make a statement, we would appreciate it.

STATEMENT OF HON. OREN HARRIS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS

Mr. HARRIS. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, thank you very much. I came here just to enter my appearance and to join many of the most important farmers and constituents of our State and our district and others who are appearing here in the interests of this program.

I would not impose upon the time of this distinguished committer. in view of the fact that you have so many witnesses here, but I disi want you to know, Mr. Chairman, that I am tremendously interested. and I share the concern of so many as to the effect of the proposed program on the rice program.

We have substantial rice farming in my district. I hope that there will be no action taken that would penalize the farmers. I know the committee has a tremendous problem in working this matter out.

You will hear from some constituents of mine during the course of the hearing, and I want to say that Mr. T. A. Prewitt, Jr., of McGehee, Ark., and Mr. Bob Stimson of Dumas, Ark., Mr. Jack Gibson of Dermott, Ark., and Mr. T. A. Prewitt of Tillar, Ark., are with this group of distinguished people from our State. I would appreciate your hearing them.

I do want you to know that I am very interested in this program, and I want to join them and others in seriously asking the members of this committee to give the usual careful and most considered attention to this problem in the interests of all of our country as well as the rice farmers from Arkansas and other sections.

I just wanted to make my appearance here to join them and thank you very much.

Mr. JONES of Missouri. We know how busy you are and how difficult it is for you to be here. We are very happy that you are here, and we are hearing from all of the people who care to make statements, and have announced that those who do not care to make statements may file them for the record, and it will be in the printed hearings, and I can assure you that the committee is cognizant of the importance of this problem, and so far it has been kind of a one-sided argument, but we are taking it all in.

Mr. HARRIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the attention you have given. Actually there is only one side to this program.

Mr. GATHINGS. I just want to say, Mr. Chairman, that my colleague from Arkansas, Mr. Harris, has consistently worked in the interests of agriculture in our State, the rice farmer, cotton farmer and farmers in general, and I commend him highly over the years for the fine work and services he has rendered to our people.

Mr. HARRIS. Thank you. I appreciate the very kind words of my colleague, and we are depending on you to do this. We know you are going to do it.

Mr. JONES of Missouri. Mr. Carter.

Mr. CARTER. Thank you, Congressman. I about lost my place. R. E. Short.

Mr. SHORT. No statement.

Mr. CARTER. May I make a statement for Mr. Short. I think many of you perhaps knew his father, who at one time was Assistant Secretary of Agriculture. We are very proud to have Mr. Short up here as one of our delegation.

Mr. James Mason.

Mr. MASON. No statement.

Mr. CARTER. I want to go back to the Fourth Congressional District of Mr. Harris and call that list again. He did not give you an opportunity to make a statement, so Mr. Prewitt, Jr., would you like to make a statement?

STATEMENT OF T. A. PREWITT, JR., McGEHEE, ARK.

Mr. PREWITT. I would like to thank the committe for the privilege of appearing before you and for your consideration that I know you are going to give this very important legislation.

Thank you.

Mr. JONES of Missouri. Thank you, Mr. Prewitt.