committee and the Congress wrote into the bill in 1950 are thrown out insofar as this new section 202 is concerned.

All we say is, "let him have the powers, but put in the safeguards applicable to this one section that you want to add to the bill, section 202." That is all, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. A good many of the witnesses who have come here have expressed great apprehensions about the power being misused. But the Constitution still governs the President and every action of the President and no property can be taken away from any indiv dual in violation of the provisions of the Constitution because the individual can go to the courts and assert his rights and maintain his interest under the Constitution.

Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman, I have already quoted from the
Supreme Court. I am not in disagreement with your point at all.
The CHAIRMAN. You believe an emergency exists, do you not?
Mr. SNYDER. The President has already declared one.

The CHAIRMAN. But you believe it exists anyhow, do you not?
Mr. SNYDER. Certainly. With the Korean War, of course.
The CHAIRMAN. We are at war now, are we not?

Mr. SNYDER. We have not declared war.

The CHAIRMAN. We have not declared war, but the same conditions confront us as though we had declared war.

Mr. SNYDER. Then I think we ought to follow the line that we did the last time. I am not saying that the powers and authority should not be given to the President. I merely say, "put the safeguards there." Just apply the safeguards to real property under 201 (a) (b) that are presently in the law to section 202, as we have suggested in this amendment. That is all. We are not saying he should not have the right to take the property.

The CHAIRMAN. But the argument here is that the President can go in and ruthlessly take the property of private citizens. Mr. SNYDER. I did not make that argument, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I know you have not, but we have heard witnesses say that he takes the property of private citizens and uses it for public purposes, and that there is nothing to prevent him from exercising that power. However, there always is. The Constitution governs the President as well as it governs the Congress. The President must act in conformity with the principles of the Constitution.

There is very little chance of the President misusing any power that is granted to him for the purpose of protecting the Nation and the future of our Government and the happiness of our people.

Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman, if this committee would take the same action with respect to the safeguards as the House did when it overrode the President's veto on a bill for acquisition of real property and apply it to this section, there would be no problem.

Mr. MULTER. In other words, you want the Congress to administer the laws. You want Congress not only to enact laws but to administer them.

Mr. SNYDER. That is what you are here for, sir.

Mr. MULTER. Then, I think, you better read the Constitution. We

are not here for that purpose at all.

We are here to enact the laws.

Our Constitution imposes on the executive branch of the Government the duty to administer the laws.

Mr. SNYDER. I did not say that I wanted you to administer the laws, sir. You suggested that.

Mr. MULTER. I do not go along with that at all. You are suggesting now that the Congress administer the laws it enacts.

Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Multer, I did not say that, nor do I wish to say it. If I did make that statement, I retract it, and I want to say I am sorry. Mr. MULTER. Did you not say that we should take the same action we did in overriding the President's veto about 2 weeks ago?

Mr. SNYDER. I do not interpret it that way.

The CHAIRMAN. You are opposed to any control of rents anywhere, is that right?

Mr. SNYDER. No, sir. I did not say that, sir.

It

The CHAIRMAN. Where do you think there might be controlled rent? Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman, we are offering our opposition, and the proof, to show that the need for Federal rent control is gone. never worked in the first place and it will not work now. We suggest, sir, that the States and localities, as in New York State right now or in any other State or locality where they need the controls, are perfectly able to handle their own problems on the matter of rent control. They have proved that.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you not think the Federal Government should have some control over the rents where they directly affect the defense effort, particularly in the defense areas where there is a shifting of population by virtue of the influx of employees to these defense areas? Do you not think the Government should have some control of the rents in those particular areas?

Mr. SNYDER. No, sir; I do not. I think the States are perfectly able to handle their own problems. I have always felt that way. The CHAIRMAN. But that is not a State problem; that is a Federal Government problem.

Mr. SNYDER. What has the Federal Government in Washington got to do with a man who is working in Atlanta, Ga.? That is a matter for the State of Georgia to take care of, or, for that matter, the city of Atlanta.

The CHAIRMAN. With respect to some of these areas, such as the atomic-energy installation in Paducah, Ky., or the installation in South Carolina, do you not think there should be some control of the rent in those particular areas?

Mr. SNYDER. Under the Atomic Energy Act they can do it. They cannot only build the houses, but they can rent them for whatever prices they want to.

The CHAIRMAN. But the Government would have no power if you were to repeal the rent-control law.

Mr. SNYDER. Certainly they would, under the Atomic Energy Act. The CHAIRMAN. The Government would only control the rents on the property that it had built and owned and rented. That is the ultimate result of the failure to pass the housing bill, to which the building industry was opposed, and the building industry has gotten itself in a bad situation by reason of that.

Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman, rent control will not provide more housing in any atomic-energy installation.

The CHAIRMAN. Even if you were to repeal the rent-control law, there would not be any additional housing for a long time. It takes a long time to build a house.

Mr. SNYDER. It is not relative to it at all. I think we will both agree to that. In the second instance, under the Atomic Energy Act the Federal Government can seize the property at any time, even though it is private property. The Congress has already given the Atomic Energy Commission the right to do that and to build houses; or, if the houses are there, to seize them and operate them and rent them for whatever rent they want to charge.

Mr. MULTER. Do you agree that they should use the authority? Mr. SNYDER. If they feel it is necessary. I am not qualified to speak on that subject.

Mr. MULTER. I thought you did not want the Government in the building or renting business?

Mr. SNYDER. I did not say that, sir. I am trying to answer the chairman's point on atomic-energy building installations.

The CHAIRMAN. You think there ought to be something done, I suppose, to control the inflationary tendencies that exist now, is that right?

Mr. SNYDER. Absolutely, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You think it is very dangerous?

Mr. SNYDER. Certainly, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And you think we are in an emergency now?
Mr. SNYDER. Definitely, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Notwithstanding what the President has said, I think it ought to be obvious to every American citizen that we are in an emergency. You believe that, do you not, sir?

Mr. SNYDER. There is no disagreement there, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. There could not be any dispute as to that, could there?

Mr. SNYDER. We know we have inflation, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. These conditions are dangerous to the interests of every American citizen. Now, how far would you go in combating it? What would you do?

Mr. SNYDER. I am not an expert on economics, sir. I would like to give you my own opinion. I think one good way would be to start curbing nonmilitary expenses. Once we start curbing nonmilitary expenses, we can do it.

The CHAIRMAN. If we were to rely on the advice of some of the interested people concerned, there would be no control at all. Everyone says, "We are in a bad condition, there is a grave danger confronting us, but we ought not to be controlled."

Almost every interest is opposed to controlling themselves. Now, you feel there ought to be some controls, do you not, to meet this condition that exists now?

Mr. SNYDER. Sir, I am not in a position to tell you where the controls ought to be. In my opinion, certainly the first place to start is where you supply the money. If you have inflation, there is only one thing to do you have to cut off the flow of that money. There are only two sources for the money, the Federal Government and the commercial banks. When you start getting some kind of a balance between the two, then I think you have gotten to the root of it all.

The CHAIRMAN. However, if we cut off the source of supply, cut off credit, cut off the money supply, there would not be very much building going on, would there?

Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman, we did not testify that we wanted to cut off all credit controls.

The CHAIRMAN. I say that credit is the same as money as far as the inflationary effect is concerned. You would not believe in any curtailment of that?

Mr. SNYDER. We have already testified that certain credit controls. apparently seem to be necessary.

The CHAIRMAN. But do not credit controls affect your business? Mr. SNYDER. Yes, sir. There are controls that already affect our business. What we are saying, sir, is that these credit controls should not be extended to every piece of real property in the United States. For example, Mr. Chairman, do you want farm lands to be under control? That is the backdoor to putting a sales price on every piece of property in this country, and I do not think that is what this committee wants to do.

The CHAIRMAN. I am not opposed to your interest. I think housing is absolutely essential. I would like to see a great stimulation in housing production. I think it is essential. I do not want to do anything to prevent that, but I do say that there is a great emergency that exists now which must be met.

If we were to rely on the interested persons who come here, we would have no controls. It seems to me we have to disregard some of the arguments made by some people in order to achieve the great purpose which we are trying to achieve.

I do not want to do anything to prevent the building of homes. I think it is absolutely essential not only for the present but for the future welfare of the country and our institutions. But certainly we must have some restrictions on some of the inflationary tendencies or a great disaster is going to come on our people. We have to work it out and we have to have the cooperation of all interests in order to achieve our purpose.

Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman, we have offered our cooperation.

The CHAIRMAN. I might say that I have always been in favor of doing what I could for the building interests wherever possible, and I think they know that. But we just cannot rely on every interest that comes in here because they are all taking a personal interest, it seems

to me.

Mr. COLE. They are a selfish lobby.

The CHAIRMAN. We have to disregard that to a certain extent in order to achieve what we are trying to achieve. I imagine the tendency is natural. I would probably be the same way if I represented a certain industry. That is what we find everywhere.

Now, Mr. Snyder, you do not express any opinion about any other controls except the rent control, is that right?

Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman, I think we are qualified to speak in our own field, but I think when we get away from that we ought to have another witness speak.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think there should be any controls on credit?

Mr. SNYDER. I did not say there should be credit controls across the board.

The CHAIRMAN. You would not want the controls to affect your industry on credit; nobody does.

Mr. SNYDER. It already does. We have not said that, Mr. Chairman. We have not said that at all. We have not said that we do not want controls to affect our industry. What we have tried to say is that there exists already credit controls on practically every form of real estate except the conventional loan on existing houses, and this control would extend not just to existing houses but to every piece of real property in the United States. In a period of time such as we are presently in, the emergency of which you speak, people have to be free to move from one place to another. If you tie up our industry entirely there will be no freedom of activity and there will be no desire at all to go ahead and build. Rent control has killed and removed from the rental market construction by the rental investor. What we are saying is that we want to do the same job that you do, sir, and we believe we can provide that housing if you will just untie our hands.

The CHAIRMAN. You know, sir, the law is made to have an effect upon those that are not public-spirited. Many a man lives all his life without feeling the effect of the law at all, while other men feel it every day. Now I realize that there are a lot of good men in this world and that there are a lot of bad men in this world. For instance, I think as a rule hotel owners are good people. I have traveled around and I do not think they have raised their rents very much. They are mighty good fellows as a rule, but there are some bad ones. I have seen them raise rents in Washington so that the people left the place like rats leaving a sinking ship. Those are the fellows we have to control. If we took the control off rents in Washington, a lot of people would not be hurt at all, but there would be a lot of people who would be in a very precarious situation because of that fact. What would you do about those people? Would you let the bad fellow take advantage of them?

Mr. SNYDER. I would let the local government make that decision, Mr. Chairman. I think the local governments are quite competent. They have done a pretty good job for these 150 to 160 years throughout the country. They have kept the cities going all right, and they have not let too many sink.

The CHAIRMAN. You are not in favor of that?

Mr. SNYDER. No, sir. I said, Mr. Chairman, Federal controls, no; local and State controls, if they are needed. Then that control can certainly be justified by the local people or the State people and they are perfectly able to handle their own problems.

The CHAIRMAN. However, sir, national defense is not a State matter. National defense is a Federal matter. With respect to the matter of national defense, that involves the defense of our whole country which must be accomplished by uniform laws for a single purpose. If that is to be done, do you think the States will so operate to make it effective?

Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Chairman, they have done practically everything else you have asked. What is wrong with selective service? That is administered locally, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. In the last war we had a Federal rent law. Now, when it comes to the real issue, do you think the States will meet the condition?