Mrs. MAY. Do you have any figures as to the national situation, or are you speaking only of individual States?

Mr. BRACKEN. My experience within my own State and the State of Nebraska. These I have figures on. It is $1.82 for a lineman, which is not a living wage.

Mrs. MAY. You are not prepared to state that this is a condition. of all REA's in all States where they exist?

You do not have figures on that?

Mr. BRACKEN. I would say that we have some REA's who definitely pay good wages. They are unionized. I cannot say any more, just the fact that only a small percentage are organized and the others are not paying the good wages.

Mrs. MAY. Your statement does indicate that when the REA's are organized they are paying higher wages than elsewhere in the Nation, or what you would call standard wages?

Mr. BRACKIN. That is correct.

Mrs. MAY. Do you have the figures on this?

Do you have any figures for the record to show what the wages are in the various areas of the country?

Mr. BRACKIN. I would be willing to produce such information as I have, but I do not have it with me.

(The figures referred to above were submitted as follows:)

NEBRASKA PUBLIC POWER WAGE SURVEY

Nebraska public power system, Jan. 1, 1967

K-B-R Public Power District, Ainsworth, Nebr., year ending Dec. 31, 1966:

Classification:

Foreman
Lineman
Mechanic

1 Maximum hours of work, before overtime applies, not known.

Total annual earnings1 $5,201 to $5,502 $5,155 to $5,567. $5,388.

Twin Valleys Public Power District, Cambridge, Nebr., year ending Dec. 31, 1966:

Loup Valleys Rural Public Power District, Ord, Nebr., year ending Dec. 31, 1966 Classification:

Lineman__

1 Maximum hours of work, before overtime applies, not known.

Total annual earnings1 $4,090 to $5,956.

Central Nebraska Public Power and Irrigation District, Mar. 1, 1967

Mrs. MAY. Thank you very much. If the cooperatives were organized, would you withdraw your objection to H.R. 1400?

Mr. BRACKIN. I do not believe I would, because I am also a taxpayer. [Laughter.]

Mrs. May. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Lantau is a member of the same union of which you are president; is that true?

Mr. BRACKIN. We are different business agents of different locals. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Lantau is not at the witness table. If you will set there and present yourself for questioning at this time.

Mr. Teague?

Mr. TEAGUE of California. This is not a question. The leaders of organized labor in my district take a dim view of their Congressman. If you will send word out there that they have a strong ally here on the committee on this issue, I would be grateful to you. [Laughter.] Mr. LANTAU. I would like to answer Mr. Teague on that.

Last year, we did. We sent telegrams and letters to your IBEW locals and particularly in California notifying them of your fine support of our position.

Mr. TEAGUE of California. Thank you very much. I am, indeed, grateful. Maybe that got me over the line.

Mr. LANTAU. I hope it did.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Miller?

Mr. MILLER. I believe I heard a few minutes ago, Mr. Brackin, that in the State of Iowa you gave figures

Mr. BRACKIN. I did not say in Iowa.

Mr. MILLER. In the same area you gave the figures for linemen. Can you give me some idea of what wage a public utility would be paying for that same job?

Mr. BRACKIN. A lineman is a job which is quite easy to compare. In the State of Iowa, I would say that it averages $4.

Mr. MILLER. A comparison of $1.82 to $4?

Mr. BRACKIN. Compared to that, that is correct.

Mr. MILLER. Compared to that, approximately?
Mr. BRACKIN. That is correct.

Mr. MILLER. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Abernethy?

Mr. ABERNETHY. You spoke of being limited in funds to carry on your work. Does not your national organization supply you with organizers? Does it not maintain reserves for the purpose of organization?

Mr. BRACKIN. I am not really in a position to answer for my international. I am sure that if I attempted to organize

Mr. ABERNETHY. Are you not in touch with them occasionally? You got your charter from them, did you not?

Mr. BRACKIN. That is correct.

Mr. ABERNETHY. And you are unable to tell the committee whether or not there are any funds available from the parent organiaztion for the purpose of organizing the various working groups?

Mr. BRACKIN. There would be funds available from the international, I am sure. How much and what percentage, I do not know. Mr. ABERNETHY. Have you requested any?

Mr. BRACKIN. I am an independent Irishman. So far, my local has not been in the financial situation where it had to request funds. Mr. ABERNETHY. You are independent when it comes to asking your union for money, but not when it comes to affiliation; is that it?

Mr. BRACKIN. I am a firm believer in that. Up to the present time, my local, financially, has not had to ask for help from the international. Mr. ABERNETHY. I am not really being facetious. I do not want you to misunderstand me. I thought that any local was eligible to resort to its parent organization for funds. Is that not a union policy? Mr. BBACKIN. This would be the general policy.

Mr. ABERNETHY. You have not resorted to it?

Mr. BRACKIN. The organizing had already been done, as was mentioned. They agreed to join the union, voted to join it, and then we ran into difficulty.

Mr. ABERNETHY. You spoke of lawsuits. Does the parent organization supply attorney fees?

Mr. BRACKIN. I am not in a position to answer of whether they would or would not, because my local has not asked for help.

Mr. ABERNETHY. It would seem then that you are not very active as president of your local.

That is all.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

Are there any further questions?

If not, we are very much obliged to both of you gentlemen.
We will next call Mr. Hedquist.

Mr. Teague?

Mr. TEAGUE of California. Inasmuch as I am such an ally of organized labor, I am sure Mr. Brackin is a very active person as an organizer, although he may not be very active in requesting funds. The CHAIRMAN. Is Mr. Hedquist here?

I think he has left.

That then brings us to our colleague, Congressman Gray, who was scheduled for tomorrow but has a conflict.

We will be delighted to hear from you now.
Congressman Gray.

STATEMENT OF HON. KENNETH GRAY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

Mr. GRAY. Mr. Chairman and members of this great committee, thank you very much. As you have pointed out I do have a problem, a matter of conflict in time. I do appreciate very much the opportunity to be taken out of order.

I want to thank the committee for the privilege of appearing here this morning.

Also, Mr. Chairman, I would like the record to reflect that I have six rural electric cooperatives in my congressional district. There are a number of the representatives of those cooperatives here this morning. I would like to have the pleasure of introducing those who are in attendance here this morning.

The CHAIRMAN. You may do so.

Mr. GRAY. I would like to recognize Tom Clevenger, Marion. Ill.,. manager Southern Illinois Power Cooperative; W. L. Bradley, Ridge