« VorigeDoorgaan »
Liberty of the Press,
snatch Mr. CROSWELL from the clutches where the press is free, the arts and scienof the prosecutor.
ces flourish. From this fountain, have He said, the gentleman who had prece
flown all the improvements in modern FOR THE BALANCE.
ded bim, had taken so wide a scope-10 | times, in general intelligence, in the sci
thoroughly investigated the authorities ad. ence of political government, in all the « Nothing extenuate, nor set down aught in malice.” duced, and so conclusively proved the il
conveniences and luxuries of life. In a legality of the motion, that little remained word, in every country where it has been AN ACCURATE STATEMENT OF FACTS,
for him to observe upon the law. His protected and cherished, its blesling; were
observations would be principally directed far beyond the reach even of the press to Mr. ATTORNEY:GENERAL SPENCER'S
to the consequences which would result describe. It was, he said, and so experi. LATE ATTACK from a restriction of the press, such as was
ence had demonstrated, the unbending pronow demanded.
teation of the rights of man, and an unconThe present case, he said, exhibited a
querable bulwark against oppression. He curious spectacle. It was within the re enjoined it upon the judges, as they valued IN THIS COUNTY. colle&tion of every man, what clamors,
the noble ft principles oi frecdom, and as FVritten by a gentleman who was at court during the
they wished to leave thcir children in the what tumults were raised by a certain party, wbole transaction, and who pledges himself when a law was passed forbidding any man
full enjoyment of its bleflings, to avert that the detail is substanstially correct. to publish falsnoods respecting government.
the blow aimed at the very vitals of our reBy that statute, the truth might be given public. [CONTINUED.]
in evidence. But scarcely has that law ex Mr. Van Ness proceeded, with great
pired—scarcely have these clamors ceased ability, to prove that the present measure, R. VAN NESS began by re io echo through the continent, when that if executed, would reftrain the true libergretting, that on a question of such ac. very party commence prosecutions upon ty of the press. He quoted Blackstone's. knowledged importance to every freeman, the principle that the truth itself is a libel
, definition of the liberty of the press.-longer time for preparation could not be and must not be told of those sacred char
“ The liberty of the press is indeed ellenafforded. He felt that in defending Mr.
acters whom they have exalted to power. tial to the nature of a free flate. But this CROSWELL from the demand of the public
These circumstances furnished topics for consists in laying no previous refraint upprosecutor, he was defending the legiti
reflection which he would not indulge. He on publications, and not in freedom from mate rights, the legitimate privileges of ev
wished that the present question might be cenfure for criminal matters when pub. ery freeman-rights and privileges which abstracted from party. And he hoped that lihed.” And, with great force and clearcould be entombed only in the great tomb
the short-lived pleasure of triumphing over ness, he demonstrated, that in every point of our republic. He believed, that the at.
his opponents, would not urge the public of view, this recognizance would operale tempt of the Attorney-General was a di prosecutor to persevere against conviction
as a previous restraint. re&t attack upon the most important prin- || and conscience. For, said Mr. Van
What, said he, is the due course pie.“ ciples of a republican governments and it
Ness, transitory indeed would be those lau-scribed by law for the punishment of a iihe should fucceed, no manicould hereafter rels which he may reap around the ruins of
bel? Indi&tment and convi&tion by a ju. know when he was secure from the venthe freedom of the preis.
ry. Upon what ground does the public geance of power. He felt it, therefore, a Mr. Van Ness then, in glowing col- prosecutor demand a more fummary prosacred duty to raise his voice against this ours, painted the blessings resulting to the cedure ? Does he contend that Mr. unhallowed attempt, and to exert all his community from a free press. Look round CROSWELL is a person of bad fame? He powers, in concert with his friend, to the world, said he, and in every country dare not contend it. For every act of liis
life is a living monument of the reverse. | from the ashes of both a third may spring
from the ashes of both a third may spring 1" That in matters which the law hath left --No! he goes upon the ground that Mr. up, and allume all the political power and indefinite it is better to fall sort of than CROSWELL is a libeller. And by what consequence in the community. These
Thele exceed his authority.' ” nght does he pronounce him a libeller ? succeflive parties will ever find men calcu. It is here obvious, said Mr. Van Ness, Has he been convicted by a jury? Have lated to become their minions. These with what caution the English Magistrates his peers pronounced his publications li. men they may alternately exalt into mag- approach the liberties of the subject. And bellous ? Let bim wait the issue of the tri. iftratcs. And if the prelent doctrine is ef in a republic, shall the courts of justice neg. al; let him restrain his eagerness to fetter tablished, each party in its turn, through lect those rules of caution, which, in the the prefs until a jury shall judge Mr. Cros thefe magiftrates, will have the compleat English Monarchy, are held sacred ; and, WELL guilty ; then, indeed, with some controul of every press in the country. for the purpose of imposing fetters on the plaulibility, may he come forward with the And in their hands, the freedom of the press, fhail they resori to more rigid con. present motion.
press and of public discussion, will become litructions ? What is the effect of this motion ? The a spirit haunting those places where it
He then read the third section of the ha. court is asked to lay HARRY CROSWELL un. once had flourilhed. The politicians, the der bonds of 8000 dollars, to keep the magistrates, will have nothing to check
bæs corpus act, which gives to any one peace and be of good behaviour. The their misconduct. The people to whom imprisoned for any misdemeanor, (other flightest misbehaviour forfeits the bonds ; they are responsible, and from whom they
than treason and felony) the writ of habæs and thus, without conviction, without ev. derive all their power, must remain igno.
corpus, by which he may come before a en a trial by his peers, for the smallest rant of every thing. The ambitious and adge of the supreme couri, and he recog.
nized for his appearance at the proper poflibie oitence, Mr. CROSWELL may be the immoral, may triumph in their crimes, plunged in poverty, and his family reduced without fear of detection. This country
court, and at the proper time ; and upon to beggary and want. His ruin might be will fall from its happy ftate of freedom,
such recognizance the judge is bound to the consequence of an act scarcely crimi. and the people become the victims of ty.
liberate him. Here, then, said Mr. VAN nal, and for which altho' convicted by a ranny, until, roused by accumulated op.
Ness, is cur final fecurity. Whatever may
be Mr. CROSWEL.L's fate betere this court, jury, he would scarcely be cenfured.-pression, they will burst the letters which This, Mr. Van Ness contended, was mo!1 reftrain their rights, and seek" through
there is an appeal to a higher tribunal.frous doétrine ; and he wondered it did blood and laughter their long-loft liber. The writ of habæs corpus is secured, and not blister the lips of any man who dared ties.'
knowing that no court, no prosecutor, can
deprive Mr. CROSWELL of this right, he to urge it.
These are not the idle fantasies of imaHe then read the following sentence Il gination. The tendency of the present gination. The tendency of the presently palladium of human rights, which, in
felt perfc&tly fecure. This writ is that hofrom the speech of Mr. Fox, on the law of measure, is direct to the introduction of libels :-" In the prefent enlightened age,
the worst times which England ever knew, scenes such as I have described. The " Mr. Fox faid, that he had no reason to freedom of difcuffion now checks, in its
had always secured to the subject those “ fear that previous restraints would be at.
privileges which the laws had guaranteed, rise, every vicious measure of government. teinpied to be imposed on the preis.-- Place the press in the hands of every mag
And in this country, it will bear the citi.
zen, it will bear Mr. CROSWELL to a triThe good sense of the times would not istrate, and ilis check is gone forever. " brook an imprimatur, or previous fure. The people, deprived of true information,
bunal where party spirit is a stranger
where the influence of no man can pervert “ ties of any kind for good behoviour. can no longer judge corre&ly of the con" And it was not in such way that he
the streams of justice, and where, happily duct of their rulers ; nor can they reform “ dreaded any danger to the press.” In abuses until, mad with oppreflion, they
for our country, the law and the conflituexpress words, it is here called a previous rise in their might and spurn into infignisi.
tion are paramount to every power. Mr. refl: aint, in the form of “ previous sure.
VAN Ness faid, that by whatever he had Cance their proud oppreffors, He called ties of any kind tor good behaviour.” on the court to weigh well the ilep they
faid, he meant no disrespect to the court
he was then addressing. 'He had spoke of Can there be a doubt, then, that this were about to take--to reflect on the fatal measure would operate as a previous rel. l consequences, before they finally passed | he had spoken bis solemn convi&tions from
the tendencies of the present motion; and traint ? And if so, according to the defin. thie Rubicon, ition of Blackflone, and the opinion of all
ihe sincerity of his heart. And he hoped
Mr. Van Ness then, with great force and trusted, that the julices would weigh approved writers, it is an illegal violation of argument, answered the authorities ad
well the question they were about to deof that facred guardian of our rights, the
duced by the Attorney General, and took cide, and that in their decision they would liberty of the press. a view of those produced by Mr. Wil.
be guided by found discretion and solid Belides, said he, the citizen is robbed ol LIAMS ; and clearly proved, that the at.
principles. In the full beliet that this the right of trial by jury. Their province tempt was illegal, unprecedented, and di would be the case, he delivered liis client is ufurped by every justice ; by magil. rectly against the policy of our govern. into their hands. He did this in the fulltrates always fubjilt to the power of those ment. But, as his arguments upon this
eft confidence, that by their decision, they who created them; and they assume the part of the subject, were somewhat simular would convince the world, that courts of right to decide whether publications are jo those before advanced by Mr. Wil- ll justice would not fan&tion the attempts of libellous or not. The court would heli LIAMS, it is thought unnecessary to repeat
any man to fetter the press—10 destroy the tète long before it took a fep pregnant them.
rights of a free citizen, and pervert the law with such awful consequences. For, said Mr. VAN Ness then read the following
to an engine of party persecution. Mr. Van Ness, history teaches, and our remarks from Burn's Justice, vol. th, p. experience confirms the fact, that in free
Mr. Van Ness here closed a very im251, “ Upon the whole, the magistrale in governments parties will succeslively rise this article of good behaviour, cannot ex
pressive and forcible argument, and was
followed by Mr. SPENCER upon the other tu power, and link into weakness. This ercile too much caution and good advise. is the beaten track of all republics. To.
side of the question. ment."
Although the juslice of the day a party rises io the zenith of power. peace may have a discretionary power, yet [Mr. SPENCER's arguments, the decision But a few years roll away when another it is a legal discretion in which in favour of the court, &c. are unavoidably post. rites on the ruins of its predecessor ; and of liberty great tenderness is ujed.”- poned until next week.]
OTWITHSTANDING the two great
man ought to be removed from office on No. 3 --Holt's account of the Attorney. GenerIN giving an account of the occurren account of his political sentiments ? al's late attack on the liberty of the press, is a mass ces at Claverack, in the BALANCE No.
Has Thomas Jefferson turned any per.
of misrepresentation. wartonly made. This, to be 4. I could only itate, what took place son out of office on account of his polit- himself, and probably received his information from
sure, is the less surprizing, as he was not a: court in open court. In justice to the Attorney ical sentiments ? General, I now correct that account in
the most impure sources.
It is reedless to ad any one particular. I am informed that the
Have the Post-Master General, and the thing on this subject, as some of the most respectacauses were put off, in consequence of a
Governor and Council of Appointment ble characters in the county are ready to give testiproposition made by the Attoracy-Gener
of this state, done the same ?
mony of the accuracy of the statement now publishal, out of court, to the defendant's counsel.
ing in the Balance.
But we desist.
Feb. 1, 1803a And I presume it was assented to, merely because the defendant's counsel believed,
A PAIR OF BULLS. that if the affair was left to the judges, Mr. [Several other queries to Mr. Holt, CROSWELL would have been driven to tri by the same correspondent, are deemed
The editor of the Bee has long been attempting al totally unprepared. C. improper for publication at this partic
to bear away the palni from Duane in the democratular time.]
ic art of nbbing. For the want of ingenuity, he has succeeded but indifferently. He is now trying his
hand at making bulls.-See, here they come :-FOR THE BALANCE.
Addressing Mr. Sampson, he says,
“ So long as Balance Closet.
your name is foremost at the foot of the Balance,"
&c. TO MR. HOLT,
This reminds us of Paddy's companion, who (7 be folloring articles were prepared for publication “ Walk'd by his side and follow'd before him." OTWITHSTANDING the two great last week, but omitted for want of room.]
Again, Holt asks, “ Have you forgotien your political parties which exist in our coun
frequent attacks on the Hudson Bee.......previous to try, disagree in most essential points on
its existenee?" politics, fill they are united in opinion in
FIBS OF THE BEE.
If the editor of the Bee had been but two months one respect, viz.—that it is important that
from Ireland, he could not have done better. He the people have correćt information ; and
Perhaps there cannot exist a more contemptible
beats Duane himself. that it is the duty of editors of newspapers
being, than a man who is in the constant habit of to furnish it honestly and truly as far as telling falshoods, which he, at the same time, de
“ With the vulgar, the scurrilcus, the unprinci. they are able.-This, Mr. Holt, you will
clares are “ immaterial,” and avail him nothing -- pled, and the contemptible, I will hold no converse," almit; and on this ground I shake hands
We will not say that the editor of the Bee is such a says Mr. Holt.--If any reliance could be placed on You are, sir, on some occa
man ; but we will here note down some of his wan the promises of this man, there might be some hopes fons, a man of candor, and I intend, in-icon mistakes.
of him ; for it wouid appear evident, from the awhat follows, to be under the influence oi
No. 1.-A few weeks since Holt published a
bove declaration, that he is about renouncing liis candor myell.-I mean to treat you deli
party. chely, and shali expect the sanie in return
plump falshood concerning the junior editor of the from you. I shall ask you some serious Balance. It was immediately detected and exposed;
" The greater the truth e ke grecter the likel." questions, and have a right to expect catwhen Holt (not having any extracts of letters with
Holt ascribes this observation to the editors of he out signatures to prove it) acknowledged its falsity, agurical answers. observing, that “the writer's argument was not af.
Balance. If he had been at court the other day he Mr. Jefferson, in his late message to con. fected by this mistake.”—That is, it was a mere
might have heard it thundered from the eloquent gress, bas itated that he had, in one year wanton fió
lips of Ebenezer Toot, ESQUIRE, the Districtleft pait, paid between eight and nine mil
No. 2.-- In the last Bee, Holt asserts, that, in the lions of dollars of the principal and inter warfare between the Balance and the Bee, we were eit of the public debt. the agressors ; but that he holds this immaterial.
Mitchell, the being who conducts the Poughheep. Where did he get this money? Did it This also will prove to be a wanton fib.--On receiv.
sie Barometer, or fog null, after mentioning that
Cheetham had been arrested at the suit of Col. IV. come into the trealury as the result of
ing the very first nurrber of the Balance, published measures devised and pursued under the the spring of 1801, Holt mentioned its establish.
Smith, for a libel, damages laid at sixty-thousand in adminiftrations of Washington and Ad
dollars, asks, “Do ye still think, ye federal edicos, ment, and foolishly and sneeringly remarked, that if its editors had no other business than publishing a
that the press is in danger ?” -If any thing like How much money has been saved by newspaper, two of them had better go to West,
honesty or fair-dealing, could be expected from such the repeal of the judiciary system, internal Point, and enlist for soldiers, and the other imme
a wretch as Isaac Mitchell, we should be surprized
at this baseness. It is insinuated that the above suit taxes, the abolition of the law respecting I diately follow-or something to that effect. The
was brought by a federalist, when the fact is, Coi. the army and navy, and by dilinising the junior editor of the Balance wrote a short reply
Smith is a democrat, as well as Cheetham.--Yes, revenue officers, &c. &c? but Mr. Sampson, on perusing it, observed, that he
Mitchell, federal editors still think the press is in thought the Bee too contemptible for notice ; and Did Thomas Jefferson ever invite Thomas Paine to come over from France the reply, therefore, was never published.--Some.
danger--not, however, from private actions for li
bels, but from the malice and persecution of public and reside in this country?
time after this, and before the Bee had ever been
prosecutors, who are striving to prevent the public Was it ever proven to your satisfaction,
cation of truth concerning the government. provoked attack on the senior editor, comparing that Timothy Pickering, Oliver Wolcott,
him with Judas Iscariot. Mr. Sampson still declinJn. Dayton and James Ross, appropriated ed noticing him ; and he was answered by the “ jun It appears by several late accounts, that inost of a cent of the public money to private pur ior editor.”—These facts can be proved by recur our large sea-port towns are infested by robbers, poses ?
ring to the files ; and they are suificient to sink the house-breakers and incendiaries, managing their Have not the democrats uniformly de.
veracity of the Bee lower, if possible, than it now own affairs in their own way, and for their own clared, 'aill within two years past, that no lies.
use, unembarrassed by 100 much regulation," &c.
formation now asked for. The President Union. He did not see, that there could himself has told us, that it is a subject be any thing of a secret nature in the refowhich ought to have weight in our delib lution, nor any thing connected, in any erations; a subject on which it is our way, with the President's confidential mes. business to legislate. I ask then, it we are sage; but he could easily conceive that the to deliberate and legislate upon this fubje&t; | information to be obtained by the resolushall we go to work blindfold ? Shall we tion might be intimately connected with
go to work to deliberate and legislate upon Columbian Igngress.
that subject; he should therefore be in fa. a subject.of which we are totally ignorant ? vor of referring that to a secret committee,
To this day the legislature of the United but could see no neceflity of difpuiing of From the Gavette of the United States. States have no official information of the the resolution in that way.
fact, that Louisiana is celled to France, Mr. S. Smith. The gentleman from INTERESTING DEBATE except the flight mention made of it in the
Connecticut has candidly admitted that it In the house of representatives, on the resolu:ion of Mellage of the President. Of the condi
is customary in such cases to make a Mr. Griswold, calling for information relative to tions upon which it is to be delivered up, reference, tho' he is not in favor of the the cession of Louisiana to France,
of the time of the transfer, and of many reference being made to a committee with other important circumstances we know
shut doors ; but if the object were to ob(Mr. Griswold in continuation.] nothing. Yet when we ask to be furnished tain a free discussion, he would not object Reference has been made to a call for with information upon thele great and to it. He is told that a full and free difpapers in the year 1796, relative to the momentous points, obstacles are thrown in cussion cannot be had without such a referBritish treaty, and a comparison has been our way : we are called upon to.delay—to | ence, and yet he persists in his hostility to drawn between that case and the one under go into a committee of the whole, not for the motion. He had been told so by the confideration. It is insinuated that gen. the purpofe of a more full and free discus mnover, and common sense would have told tlemen who then voted against that refolu- | fion, not for the purpose of more readily
fion, not for the purpose of more readily || him soat first; yet he is lor taking advantage tion, are now acting inconfiftently; that obtaining the information, but for the
of the mover, and for shutting out the arthey then denied the right of the houle to avowed purpose of secrecy.
guinents he has to urge. The gentleman call upon the Executive for the papers, Mr. Randolph was forry that he was is mistaken in his statement of the motives This, fir, is a mistake : The right to call under the necessity of troubling the house of the different sides of the House in the for papers was not denied by those who || again upon this question. I have already discuslion on a call for papers in 1796, opposed the resolution, but the object to more than once stated that I cannot discuss when he represents one fide as claiming a which the information was to be applied, this subject in public. I have observations | right to participate in the treaty making was objected to. A treaty had been con which I have already said must be made in power. He recolle Eted it had been charged cluded by the Pieldent and Senate, in secret, or they cannot be made at all. The upon them; but they had denied it. We whom the treaty-making power is vefted gentleman from Connecticut says he is contended, said General Smith, that when by the constitution ; and he boule of rep: willing that the resolution should be fully la treaty was formed appropriating a large resentatives was called upon to make the discussed, and therefore contends that it sum of money, we had a right to appropriappropriations necolary for carrying the must not be referred to a focret committee, ate or not appropriate the money; but we treaty into effect. It was contended on the
as he is pleased to term it, where alone, as never assumed the right to say whether the part of those who advocated that resolution, we have informed him, the discussion | treaty was concluded or not. Afterwards, that the house had a right to exquire into which he seems to court can take place : gentlemen themselves, if he recollected the merits of that treaty ; 10 judge for Sir, this mas ve logic, but I do not un. right, moved a resolution that it was expethemselves whether it was the best that
derstand it. mesiage from the President dient to carry the treaty into effect, by could be forned ; and if not, that they l relative to New Orleans has been referred which they did admit the right of the had a right to withhold the appropriations, to a certain committee, and we propose to
House. Mr. Smith said he had no preand prevent the treaty from going into ef- || refer this resolution to the fame committee. vious knowledge of what the gentleman feet; thus, in fact, ufurping a part of the Gentleinen exclaim, that this is denying from Virginia meant by his mo:ion ; he treating-making power. It was professed. them information. Does it follow, of ne. might perhaps wish to amend the resolution; ly for the purpole of enabling the house to cessity, that we deny the information be. but when he says he has arguinents that he form a judgment upon this point, that the cause we chuse to consider the subject with cannot urge without shut doors, he trusted papers in that cafe were called for. On closed doors ? Cannot the resolution be as that indulgence would be allowed him, or the other side, it was objected that the pow. | fully discussed in private as in public? Do there would be a denial of juftice. er of making treaties is veiled exclufively | all the reasoning faculties of this house Mr. Dana remarked on the pra&ice of in the Prelident and Senate ; that after a cease to exist the moment the doors are referring subjects to a committee of the i reaty had been ratified by them, the house | closed? Cannot the elequence of the gen. whole house. There are several objects of representatives were bound in good tlemen be exerted unleis when addressed to be answered by this formality. In com. faith to carry it into execution as a supreme to the ladies, who do us the honor of at mittee of the whole, the speaker may take law of the land, without inquiring into ending in this hall? Sir, I shall not be part in debate, like any other member, and the merits of it. The opposition, there. drawn into a discussion of the merits of this thus we can have the benefit of his opinions. fore, io chat resolution was supported, not resolution at the prelent time. I have. Every propofiiion, adopted in committee on the ground of a want of a righi in the arguments to advance upon the subject, of the whole, is liable to a second discuffion house to call for the papers, but on the which will be known at a proper time. I in the house. The reference to a comground that they were intended to give in. | tall not advance them now.
mittee of the whole, in this respect, is much formation on a subject upon which the Mr. Bacon was opposed to the motion. the same with saying that a subject mould house had no right to act after obtaining the He thought it would be proper to call tor ba difcuffed twice. In some cases, thereinformation. No such dispnte exists in the
the information immediately, and when it fore, it is required, by the standing rules of present instance. No perfon can doubt shall be obtained, to reter that information the house, that particular subjects be referthe right of the house to act upon the in to the secret committee on the itate of the red to a committee of the whole. All mo
ney bills must first be discussed in com But although this is my prelent opinion, if mittee now rile, report progress, and uik mittee of the whole, and then reterred to any gentleman will seriously say, that in his leave to fit again--for the purpose of mov. the house, where they are again considered. judgment, there is a question of princi- ing, in the house, that the galleries should In this manner, the reference of a subject ple, or fact, which ought to be discussed on be cleared. to a committee of the whole is favorable ihis resolution, I would, from respect to to a full discussion. It is also known, that || him, be disposed to agree to the reference,
Mr. Gri?wold did hope that the comgreater freedom of debate is allowed in and proceed immediately to the discussion,
mitiee would not rise. There is business committee of the whole, than in the house, without closing the doors.
now before the committea which ought to every membee being permitted to speak, in The question was then taken on Mr.
be taken up. The only reason given ior the committee, as otten as he may choose. Randolph's motion, by yeas and nays and
the committee uising, is that a motion may But in the house, no member is authorized | carried in the affirmative, yeas 48 nays 39.
be made to close the doors, in order agaiu to speak on a question more than twice, On motion of Mr. Griswold the house re
to go into a committee upon secret businels. without first obtaining leave in form. solved itself into a committee of the whole
What propriety can there be in' adopting This has been exemplified to-day in the on the flake of the union, Mr. John C.
this measure, when there is already before case of the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Smith in the chair.
the committee business of a public and imRandolph). The speaker took a vote on M. Randolph instantly rose and said he
portant nature which may now be taken the question of giving the gentleman liberty held in his hand certain resolutions connect
up and acted upon ? I refer, sir, to the reto speak a third time. It is thus, we see, ed with the message of the president which
solution which has been under discuflion that a full and free discussion of a subject had been discussed with closed doors. He
this morning, and which is the very object is secured by referring it to a commita commit- l hoped the galleries would be cleared and
for which the house went into committee. tee of the whole. --But does this that the committee would consider the re.
Sir I take the liberty to say that this is burequire, that the committee of the whole solutions. He submitted it to the chair
siness of a very pressing nature and ought should be a secret commitee ? The terms, whether the doors ought not to be clos
to be acted upon immediately-it ought free and full discussion, so often in the led before reading his resolutions.
not to be postponed for any other business mouth of the gentleman from Maryland Mr. Dana wished to know whether it
which can be brought before the legislature. (Gen. S. Smith are so much in ule, and appeared by the journals that any such bu
Mr. Dana faid he really should hope, their import is so well known, that the finels was before the committee. If not,
that as there is business, as his colleague gentleman must be presumed to understand it could not be proper publicly to take any
had ftated, of a very pressing nature, now them, as they are applicable to the ordinary l order order upon it.
belore the committee, they would not act forms of proceeding in committee of the
such a farce as to rise immediately without
Mr. Randolph said he would call for the accomplishing any thing. He hoped that whole. In this known and obvious fense, reading of the confidential mellage. my colleague (Mr. Griswold) undoubtedly
gentlemen would not consent to exhibit in
Mr. Chairman gave it as his opinion that made use of the terms. The gentleman
the eyes of the world the spectacle of the if any gentleman has business of a confifrom Maryland, therefore, fails in attempt-dential nature to communicate, the infor
national legislature going into committee ing to infer the necessity of a secret com mation should be given to the house, upon
for no other purpose than to come out a. mittee, from what has been said by my cola which the galleries will be cleared, and the
gain, and that to when business of the itleague. house after having received the communi.
most import de ce was before then. The importance of having information, cation will judge whether it'is of a nature Mr. Rutledge. Although much has been respe&ting the ceflion of Louisiana to
which ought to be kept secret.--He was said about the propriety of a reference to France, is not denied. Gentlemen do not
of opinion that the coinmittee had no pow. a commitee of the whole house, and we profess to have objections against its being er to order the galleries to be cleared have been charged, for opposing it, with a granted. Where then the necessity of read certain rules of the house upon
which departure from the usual mode of proceed. discussing the subject in a committee of the he founded this opinion.
ing, and particularly from that pursued whole ? Is any question of principle, or of Mr. Griswold said there was other busi. when the executive was called upon for fact, to be debated ? The request is for ness before the committee not of a private information respecting Mr. Jay's, negosuch information, and for none but such,as nature, namely; the resolution which had ciations, yet, in reality, it is quite immatthe President may judge proper to be com. been that morning discussed in the house. erial to us whether the resolution be acted municated. If the information is important He hoped the committee would now con upon by the house, or by a Committee, in itselt, if it is not objected against by sider that resolution.
provided, that before acting upon the subgentlemen, and is finally submitted to the
Mr. Randolph said the reading of a pa
ject connected with it, we are permitted to President's discretion, can there be a ques per had been called for-and no other bu. ask for whatever information the Prelition about the principle of the resolution ? finess could be introduced till the question dent may deem it proper to communicate.
As to any question of fact, the only fact, had been decided whether the paper fhould Gentlemen have not alligned their reasons necessary to be ascertained before adopting | be read or not.
why we fhould not call for information the resolution, is our own want of infor Mr. Griswold said there was no such
and I cannot conjecture them. Surely mation. This every gentleman can in
per before the committee. The paper, the they are not afraid that the executive will ftantly determine for himself. If any gen. I reading of which is called for, is before a se communicate what ought to be kept tlemen have the information, in conse- cret committee of the whole on the state of secret : because this house calls, he is not quence of being admitted into the cabinet, | the union. This is not a secret committee. obliged to give the information asked, and they should be so compassionate as at least Mr. S. Smith said he believed it had should he deem it prudent to withhold it, he to allow an official communication to be been usual, upon information from any will, I presume, do his duty. It is true made for the benefit of those who have not member, that he had business of a confi. that the relolution calling for papers in the same pretensions, and who feel and ac.
dential nature to lay before the house, for the year ninety-five, was considered in a knowledge their want of information.
the house to order the galleries cleared. committee of the whole, as las heen stated As it does not appear that there is any
This he said he believed had been the or. by the gentlemen on my left (Mr. Smilie) reason for discussing the resolution in a dinary mode of proceeding, and as an ir but the discussion was a public one; wherecommittee of the whole, I would adopt it regularity had taken place in the present as gentlemen now wish to carry us into a now, and am against the proposed reference. Il intance, he would move, That the com committee with closed doors, and when