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because in the end you will not have protected the satellites from attack.

It is a mistake, in my judgment, to believe that for every problem there is an arms control solution. There may be some problems that are just intractable with respect to arms control.

Senator TSONGAS. Well, it is also a mistake to believe that there is no solution for any arms control problem.

Mr. PERLE. I do not believe that. I believe that we have put forward

Senator TSONGAS. Well, name me a treaty you really think was a great treaty.

Mr. PERLE. I do not think we have done very well——

Senator TSONGAS. Cultural exchange?

Mr. PERLE. As a matter of fact, I think the cultural exchange programs with some countries have been enormously successful, and with others rather less successful. But I think we have done rather poorly-—

Senator TSONGAS. Well, we have problems with some of those, I guess?

Mr. PERLE. Well, we have a problem with artists-we do not have a problem-the sending states sometimes have a problem with their artists defecting to the United States, which puts a crimp in the program.

Senator TSONGAS. I agree. I think that is a very serious problem-of artists.

Mr. PERLE. But, Senator, as you know-we have talked about this before-I believe that treaties that have led to significant increases in strategic forces have not accomplished the purposes that I think you and I would readily agree are the objectives of arms control. The SALT II Treaty is a treaty that was opposed not only by then candidate Reagan, but by the Senate Armed Services Committee; a sizable margin voted that it was not in the national security interests of the United States.

Senator TSONGAS. Do you think the Senate Armed Services Committee reflects the will of the American people on SALT II?

Mr. PERLE. I think, as I recall the poll data during the ratification debate, it shifted in the course of the debate from a majority favoring it to a majority opposing it, as I recall.

Senator TSONGAS. That is not my recollection. At any rate, I would ask the chairman if he would bring the other witnesses up. Senator PRESSLER. Let's have a conference, on time, between the two of us. And, I want to thank this panel very much.

General ABRAHAMSON. Mr. Chairman, may I make a request, please? You have asked that several press items-for example, Aviation Week and others-be put into the record. I think that is fine. I think it would also be appropriate if some of the unclassified versions of the Government study on the technological and policy reports associated with the SDI be included in the record as well, and I would request that of you.

Senator PRESSLER. If they are of great length, we will have to summarize them. We do try to limit the page number. How many pages is that? Since it is such an important subject, we will put it in with staff and minority and majority concurrence.

So I very much appreciate that.

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Since the dawn of the nuclear age, the United States has sought to preserve peace through deterrence. By making the cost of aggression far greater than any potential gain, the United States has successfully deterred conflict between the major powers for almost four decades.

In the face of an expanding Soviet nuclear arsenal, this Administration has taken steps to strengthen the offensive arm of deterrence while also working for significant, verifiable arms reductions. But President Reagan has also offered the hope of a world made even safer from the threat of nuclear conflict if we could develop defensive systems.

America has always drawn on its technological genius to strengthen its deterrent--both strategic and conventional. And now recent advances in technology offer us, for the first time in history, the opportunity to develop an effective defense against ballistic missiles and the possibility of fulfilling President Reagan's vision of a safer world. Achieving that worthwhile goal will not be easy. For that reason, the analysis provided by the Defensive Technologies Team and the Future Security Team is indispensable.

To carry on the work that those study teams began, the Department of Defense has combined into a single Strategic Defense Initiative previously planned research and development programs in five technology areas. Those areas that offer the greatest promise for an effective defense against ballistic missiles are: surveillance, acquisition, and tracking; directed energy weapons; kinetic energy weapons; systems analysis and battle management; and support programs, such as space electrical power and heavy lift launch vehicles. To the $1.74 billion already planned for research in those five technological areas, the Defense Department has requested an additional $250 million to begin testing weapons lethal ty, to research spacecraft survivability, and to exploit other new technological opportunities.

Successful completion of our research programs to determine the most effective defense against ballistic missiles will require the cooperation of many different organizations and all the Military Services. To coordinate all those efforts, the President has directed that we establish a centralized management office within the Department of Defense. The Program Manager will report directly to the Secretary of Defense and will hold frequent reviews to assess progress and make decisions concerning future direction of the Strategic Defense Initiative.

We firmly believe that our research can point out ways to achieve a reliable and effective ballistic missile defense that will enhance deterrence for the United States and our allies. But to succeed in that vital endeavor, we must have the full support of Congress and the American people and wholehearted participation by America's scientists and strategists.

While much remains to be done, we have made a good beginning with these two fine studies. It is vitally important that we continue our efforts to put an end to the threat of nuclear weapons. There can be no winners in a nuclear war. That terrible truth provides the incentive; science provides the opportunity. For the benefit of all mankind, we are committed to seizing that opportunity without delay.

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