li.e., student loans, mortgage foreclosure, etc); and specific information on the status of all cases. These are but a sample of the itemized tracking information considered necessary to administer the Department's debt collection program. For the reasons already stated, however, this system does not record data on specific agency programs, such as the National Health Service Corp Scholarship Program.

.

We have not stopped trying to improve our recordkeeping system. In this area, several changes have been made or are nearing completion. For example, we have been successful in having the General Accounting office adopt a claims collection Litigation Report. This report requires all creditor client agencies to provide us with uniform information when referring claims for litigation collection. We are also in the second phase of a three phase implementation procedure to replace the current DeR system, which is primarily a manual system, with a fully automated data system called the Prosecutors Management Information System (PROMIS). In addition, as a direct result of the increased training and evaluation processes, the debt collection personnel have improved the content and accuracy of the information being placed in the data reporting system.

Refining this statistical information system is just one of several critical and highly successful aspects of our efforts to further the debt collection efforts of the Department. However, our primary focus has recently been on the substantive efforts to collect monies owed to the government, and we are encouraged by our results in this area. For example, debt collection personnel have reduced the collection caseload by 204, or a decrease of over 50% per employee. At the same time, the actual collection of cash increased substantially. The total cash collections by the United States Attorney offices for the period ending January 1, 1984, amounted to over $222 million dollars. When compared to the $167 million in cash collected during the 12 month period ending January 31, 1982, this represents an increase of 32.8t. If this trend continues, which we expect it to, it will make the third fiscal year in succession that cash collection efforts by Onited States Attorneys' offices have produced a minimum of 30% increase in cash recoveries.

To be sure, there are areas of the overall program that could stand improvement. However, we are satisfied, and the above figures support us, that striving for increases in actual collections was a sound decision. We are also encouraged by recent media comments supporting the Administration's efforts in this area. In an article in U.S. News and World Report (April 9, 1983) at page 52, Attorney General William French Smith is quoted as saying "Illast year, Justice collected 477.8 million dollars in debts for the government, up 139 percent from 1982.' This article also notes that the 94 United States Attorneys spent only 8.6 million dollars to collect

debts amounting to 201.5 million, or a return of about $24 for each dollar spent. We have attached a press release from the Attorney General dated November 17, 1983, which provides additional statistical information of this nature. In light of these encouraging results, we now can move toward finetuning other areas of the program according to the need.

with the above in mind, we believe that our apparent difficulty to respond to your request within the time-frame your staff expected is not an indication of a failure in the Departaent of Justice's debt collection function. Nor does it reveal a breakdown in our management or information system. The very specific information you were requesting has never been collected by the Department and we are not convinced of a need to collect it now. Indeed, it would appear that the client agency who administers the specific program you identified may have a more compelling need and responsibility to collect the information you sought, and which we are now providing to you. We are satisfied nonetheless, that the information we enclose will respond to your request and do, as always, appreciate your cooperation and assistance.

Sincerely,

Totoont er. Melom

Robert A. McConnell
Assistant Attorney General

Senator PERCY. Our next witness is Dan Webb, the U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Illinois and as fine an attorney as I have had an opportunity to work with. We started with a map of Illinois, and Mr. Dan Webb's jurisdiction is all of northern Illinois, one of the largest and most difficult in the United States, and any comments that you would care to make to us at this time, Mr. Webb, th would help this committee as to how you have seen your function under the legislation that we have been working under and reviewing today would be appreciated.

TESTIMONY OF DANIEL WEBB, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR

THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS

Mr. WEBB. Thank you very much, Senator, I thank you for the fine comments. I would like to thank you and your staff for the efforts in the recent years. I think the attention that you have focused on debt collection has sensitized and enhanced the efforts of the U.S. attorneys across the country. There are 95 of us, and I think the efforts that you and your staff have made have sensitized the problems. At the same time, we are litigators as U.S. attorneys, and of the problems in this particular national health scholarship program calls to my attention, and I will make any comments very brief, because I know what the Senator's schedule is, but it calls to attention certain problems that we do have and that I would like to call to your attention that are illustrated by this program.

That is, that as lawyers in the U.S. attorney's office, there is only so much we can do. When an agency such as HHS, in administering a program on some occasions, for example, in this program, the cases that I have in Chicago illustrate that loans were made to people that should never have been made in the first place, that after these loans went into default, there was 4 or 5 years of wasted time by HHS. In virtually doing nothing but exchanging letters with people, and then 5 years later, referring the case to my office after the trail was cold and the doctor had either disappeared or had absolutely no assets available to him, and HHS washes its hands of this case by putting it into my

and says to me, "Now perform a miracle and collect the money." It can't be done.

So the problems that we have as litigators in attempting to collect money are completely dependent on two factors: One, having a debtor that we can locate. In the two cases I have in this program now,

the doctor is unlocatable because HHS sent us cases where we can't locate the persons we are trying to collect from, at least in the main case I am thinking of. And when I look at the case history here and see what happened, these problems have to be dealt with. We can't wait 5 years to send a case to the U.S. attorney's office and expect a U.S. attorney to be able to go out and collect the money, because it simply won't work that way.

I think the problems you have to deal with, and I think there are problems that can be addressed in the future and that we are willing to try to work together and try to solve those problems, Senator.

Senator PERCY. I thank you very much. I did see a news clipping, oh, maybe a year ago that a U.S. attorney in Philadelphia had seized 35 cars or so in order to collect debts, a very aggressive program. Have you resorted to that power, and if so, has it been effective in helping encourage people to pay off their loans if they have to do without their car in the meantime?

Mr. WEBB. That is an esteemed and talented attorney in that program in Philadelphia. We did it in Chicago in working with the U.S. marshal's office, did implement that program, probably did not to the scale that they did in Philadelphia. The degree of success that we had has been mixed. I have not recently reviewed the results of that.

Senator PERCY. We certainly appreciate your being here and look forward to working with you and Mr. Tyson in partnership to see if we can make this program more effective.

There being no further business, the hearing is adjourned.
Mr. WEBB. Thank you, Senator.
Senator PERCY. Thank you.

[Whereupon, at 12:05 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.)