As I understand it, and you can tell me if I am correct or not, that project cannot be built for $52.5 million. That estimate is included because OMB has continually assumed that there would be $20 million or so provided by the private sector, which has not occurred. Consequently, the actual cost of the project is $72 million; is that correct? Dr. DECKER. Yes, sir; that is basically what has happened. It is an important project for the fusion program. We have it under review at the present time. We will come forward with a new data sheet, one which has a scope of the project and a cost that are compatible. Senator DOMENICI. When will you have that done? Dr. DECKER. Soon; I think that it is a matter of a few weeks. HUMAN GENOME INITIATIVE Senator DOMENICI. Thank you. With reference to the genome initiative as I understand it, the Department of Energy is a partner with the National Institutes of Health and is moving ahead rather substantially with the genome mapping and sequencing initiative. Is there any controversy with reference to the request in the President's budget for additional monies for DOE to accelerate the mapping technology work which is being done at Los Alamos? Dr. DECKER. I haven't run into any controversy yet. Senator DOMENICI. There are two aspects to the budget request-increased funding for DOE and increased funding for NIH? Dr. DECKER. That is correct. Senator DOMENICI. Both are needed, as you understand it, to move ahead with a goal oriented project? Dr. DECKER. Yes; they are. We are working very closely with NIH. In fact, I just recently suggested to Jim Wyngaarden, the Director of NIH, that we set up a joint advisory committee for this program. He has agreed and we are in the process of doing that. Senator DOMENICI. Do I read in that that there is now a commitment to proceed with some kind of advisory group between the two agencies and others interested in genome mapping initiative? Dr. DECKER. Yes, sir. Senator DOMENICI. Have you had an opportunity to review the Chiles bill, S. 1966, that would set up the advisory commission on genome mapping and sequencing headed by DOE and NIH on a rotating basis? Dr. DECKER. I can't say that I have reviewed it in detail. I am aware of that provision. Senator DOMENICI. So what you are telling us is, even without a statute creating it, it is the intention of the Department to create something similar to that commission to manage the genome effort being undertaken by various federal agencies? Dr. DECKER. Yes, sir; that is correct. Senator DOMENICI. Has there been a commitment with reference to genome mapping beyond what you have described here? There are some national reports saying that we should proceed with the full mapping of the human genome and set some national targets. Has that been done within the Department, or are we still proceeding with a rather piecemeal approach to this project? Dr. DECKER. What the Department believes is important is to develop some new technologies that will, in fact, greatly reduce the costs of this undertaking. So we are concentrating on developing those new technologies. We are concentrating on increasing the capability to physically map the genome, to automate sequencing techniques, and on developing the data-handling capability for this project. This project will produce large amounts of data, and we need to have it in a form that people can, in fact, make very good use of it. PREPARED STATEMENT AND QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY SENATOR DECONCINI Senator JOHNSTON. Senator, would you yield at this point? Senator DeConcini had wanted to be here, but he is chairing a Patents and Copyright Subcommittee hearing. I think that may be the one on Jimmy Stewart's legislation, the movie star who was here this morning. He has a statement and some questions which he would like to place in the record. [The statement follows:] STATEMENT OF SENATOR DENNIS DECONCINI The Administration's budget request for the Superconducting Super Collider (SSC) for FY 89 is superb. I commend the Department for its initiative in the funding of basic science overall, and feel confident the $363 million request for the SSC next fiscal year will keep this very important scientific project on track. If we intend to be a competitive nation offering our students stimulation and a challenge in the investigation of unchartered scientific waters, we have no choice, we must charge ahead with our plans to build the Supercollider. It is truly an investment in this nation's future. I am cognizant of the budget limitations confronting the Congress and especially this Committee. Finding the $363 million necessary to keep the SSC on track as planned, will be difficult at best. But, I believe we must use that same American ingenuity we have used to compete in the scientific arena, to develop a plan to finance the project without draining our Federal budget. It certainly has become a matter of priorities science needs to take its rightful place alongside our other national funding priorities. It will not be an easy year to come up with the additional dollars for the SSC. However, I will work with all members of this Committee and the Administration in an attempt to develop a way to make the Supercollider a reality. QUESTIONS BY SENATOR DENNIS DECONCINI Superconducting Super Collider If Question: Of the $363 million requested for development of the SSC, $64 million has been allocated to continued research. the Congress does not provide funding for construction and procurement in FY 89, will additional research funds be necessary to continue the efforts to move us toward development? If so, what would be an adequate research budget for FY 89? Answer: I would like to first point out that both the $64 million of operating funds and the $16 million of capital funds requested are for the R&D program. The R&D planned for FY 1989 is highly important for the project whether or not construction funds are provided in FY 1989. Thus far, the R&D effort has concentrated on the superconducting dipole magnets. These magnets represent a substantial fraction of the cost of the project and a careful R&D plan has been laid out, leading to cost-effective and reliable magnets produced in industry. The plan involves many steps and these magnets are on the critical path. An important facet of the FY 1989 program is the start of substantial R&D efforts by industrial firms. R&D on other aspects of the SSC has been proceeding at a slower than desirable pace due to funding limitations. It is highly important in FY 89 to address these other areas in a more vigorous fashion so that we can proceed to the final engineering design. Of the construction request, $47 million is for detailed design of technical systems and conventional facilities. This design work is also on the critical path and should be pursued vigorously in FY 1989. Most of these design activities could be carried out under the R&D program with appropriate language from the Congress. Question: What will happen to the U.S. chances of building this project before a foreign competitor if the construction dollars for the SSC are not appropriated in FY 89? Answer: The large Western European laboratory near Geneva, CERN, is planning to make a decision in mid 1989 on whether to recommend to its sponsoring countries construction of the Large Hadron Collider, LHC. If approved, this facility would be built in the recently completed 17-mile circumference LEP tunnel. The LHC would be a proton-proton collider, like the SSC, but with an energy about one-third that of the SSC. While many scientists believe it could not adequately explore the mass region predicted to be of interest, it could well make discoveries which would otherwise be reserved to the SSC. If the SSC were not built, the LHC would be the premier, highest energy facility in the world for many years. The 1989 decision at CERN will be made "taking into account the evolution of the world situation." If the SSC, at that time, is on track, it seems likely that the Europeans would concentrate on developing other types of new facilities, rather than trying to compete against the SSC with a similar, but inferior facility. Question: I have repeatedly discussed with the Department the need to develop some type of creative financing for the SSC. I know the Department has sent "teams" to several countries to discuss foreign contributions. Of the countries visited, can you give me an indication of which countries would be likely to lend financial support to the project? Answer: I would like to preface my remarks by noting that we have only had preliminary discussions with foreign countries and no firm commitments were either sought or received. The reception was positive in all countries we visited and I believe we will very likely get some level of participation from all those countries. While many of the contributions are likely to be for detector fabrication, there is a strong possibility of significant construction contributions to the project from several countries. I believe it is premature and possibly counterproductive to identify specific contributions from specific countries at this early stage of discussion. In any case, we expect the contributions to be primarily "in-kind," i.e., accelerator and detector components, rather than cash. Question: From these discussions, can the Department make any type of guess as to how much money can be expected from foreign sources? Answer: I believe that we have a good chance of getting at least 20 percent from foreign sources and perhaps as high as 40 percent in the most favorable circumstances. Question: Wouldn't it be easier for the Department to "sell" this project to Appropriations Committee if it developed a funding package which included specific estimates to be contributed form various sources, i.e., 50 percent from foreign sources, the remainder from private sources in this country and general revenues, or something of this nature? Answer: I realize that the Congressional Committees would feel more comfortable if we could present a plan identifying specific foreign contributions. However, we are in the early stages of discussions and all of the foreign countries have made it clear that they are not prepared to enter into definitive negotiations and make commitments until there is a U.S. commitment to the project. For purposes of out-year funding projections, an estimate of $1.8 billion was made for non-Federal contributions to the SSC project costs. As shown in the SSC Construction Project Data Sheet, submitted as part of the President's FY 1989 budget request, these contributions were assumed to start in FY 1991. Question: Has the Department considered any alternative financing proposals for the SSC short of funding the entire project from general revenues? If so, can you give me some examples of what has been under discussion? If not, please explain why not. Answer: No, we have not considered in detail alternative financial proposals other than our efforts to secure international participation. It had been our plan to seek state and local |