were some who did not advise any reduction of expence in the prince's establishment; but they were not his friends: and as to the king's expences, he always had thought they ought to be accommodated to the civil list, instead of the civil list being accommodated to them. He contended, that the opinion of the country was with him in asserting, that, if the king had honest ministers about him, they would have advised him, for his own sake, for the prince's sake, and for the sake of the country, to have come forward. At an early period the creditors ought to have been called together, and some means attempted to satisfy them: if it could not have been done, then it was time to come to parliament. Mr. Fox touched upon the allusions made at different times to the prince's being connected with party politics, in opposition, as it was called, to government, because he happened, for the time, to agree with those who generally opposed ministers. He thought the new advisers of the prince had not increased his popularity; and believed, that his own wish and inclination three years ago was, to have retrenched his expences, in order to get into some probable train of paying his debts; butit was suspected, and he, for one, was now certain of it, that very different advice had been given to him; and that the example of M. Egalité was held out, as a warning, that, to take any steps such as were proposed, would be dangerous to the cause of monarchy. He stated his grounds for voting on a former night for granting an income of 125,000l. per annum to the prince, which were, because he thought that he, or any Prince of Wales, required it; and he would have so voted if his royal highness had not been a sixpence in debt. He thought his honourable friend had done well in proposing that the civil list should contribute towards the payment of the debts, and insisted that it was much more consistent with those old fashions which the right honourable gentleman professed himself attached to, than the mode now proposed by an application to parliament.

Mr. Sheridan having consented to withdraw his motion, the House divided on the main question :

YEAS

Tellers.
Anstruther

Tellers.

{Mr. Johrungth} 148.-NOES {Mr. Whitbread}

So it was resolved in the affirmative.

93

June 8.

On the motion for going into a committee on the Prince of Wales's annuity bill,

ness.

Mr. Fox said, that if he voted for the Speaker's leaving the chair, he ought to state the ground upon which he did so ; for he confessed there were doubts and difficulties in this busiIf the question were now put that the bill be put off for two months, he should certainly give his negative to such a proposition, because he thought that this business ought to be discussed; but he was of opinion also that time ought to be given to examine into the different parts of it. There were, in his opinion, many arrangements to be made by his royal highness, and many arrangements also to be made by his majesty's advisers, with regard to the duchy of Cornwall, before the subject was matured for the decision of that House. Much of this bill, he confessed, he considered as proper. He thought that making up the income of the Prince of Wales 125,000l. a-year, was proper; he thought it becoming the dignity and the wisdom of parliament. With respect to the provision in the bill, to prevent his royal highness from incurring any debt in future, that had also his complete approbation. But what apperaed to him objectionable was, that by this bill they gave to his royal highness that which they did not give him the management of. The whole matter, he feared, would be under the management and approbation of the minister. It was placing the prince in a state of dependance on the king's treasury, which was, in other words, subjecting the prince to the power of the minister. He was dissatisfied with regard to the regulation of Carlton-house. The property there was added to the debts of the Prince of Wales. To whom should the furniture there belong? To the Prince of Wales, who paid for it, certainly. And yet they were to be made heir looms so that parliament might say to the prince "You have furnished Carlton-house more expensively than you ought to have done, but we shall have it." This was a little unfair with regard to the prince: it was very unfair with regard to the creditors; because the furniture, if this provision were not in the bill, would be moveable assets, subject to the payment of the debts; and perhaps this would operate to the prejudice of those very creditors who had provided this very furniture. Now, if he voted for the Speaker leaving the chair, it must be under an understanding that these difficulties should be removed; because, without a better

understanding of many of the topics, he would venture to say, that the House might be now doing what would neither effectually relieve the prince, nor secure the public property. As to the duchy of Cornwall, he confessed he was exceedingly anxious that it should be wholly sold. He confessed there would be some difficulty in ascertaining precisely the value of the interest which his royal highness had in that duchy, because it was not a life estate that he had in it, it was only while he continued Prince of Wales; but in any event the sale would produce more than it could produce to his royal highness in its present state. He thought it would produce 600,000l. He was far below the value he believed, but he would take it at that sum. The sum to be appropriated out of that for this debt would be very considerable; instead of the 13,000l. a-year, it would amount to 330,000l. if the money from the sale was put into the hands of commissioners, in the name and for the use of his royal highness. If this was called bargaining with the prince, and therefore unworthy of the House of Commons, he should answer, that it was a perfectly constitutional proceeding, and that this country never had better security for its liberty than when it made these kinds of bargains with its princes. He should wish that something of this kind should be moved, and he had rather that any other person should move it than himself. If nobody did, perhaps he might; this, however, he did not pledge himself to do; the session was far advanced, and the House might not like to have a new subject to discuss; but he should be sorry if this business was suffered to pass without due consideration. The annihilation of the duchy would, to be sure, diminish the overgrown influence of the crown; and here was the insuperable objection; so that the real interests of the country were sacrificed to ministerial jobbing. His opinion was, that the House was at liberty now to bring in a bill for this purpose, and he believed that his majesty would readily accede to it. He wished that the House should proceeed in this business as became the representatives of the people, neither conciliating the favour, nor dreading the resentment of any individual, however illustrious for his rank or dignity.

The Bill was committed, and passed the Commons on the 17th.

EARL FITZWILLIAM'S RECAL FROM THE GOVERNMENT OF IRELAND.

May 19.

THIS day Mr. Jekyll moved, "That an humble address be presented to his majesty, that he will be graciously pleased to direct that there be laid before this House such part of the correspondence between his majesty's ministers and Earl Fitzwilliam, late Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, as relates to the motives and grounds of his lordship's recal from the government of the said kingdom, during a session, in which the two Houses of Parliament had voted their confidence in him, and their approbation of his conduct, and had granted supplies for the general exigences of the state, with a munificence unparalleled in the annals of that country." Mr. Jekyll introduced his motion by observing, that the House had an unquestionable right to examine the use made of the royal prerogatives, and to limit them if necessary. He reminded the minister of his solemn promise, that whenever the period came for investigation, he would undertake to prove that no blame was imputable to the ministers of this country. Mr. Jekyll vindicated the conduct of Earl Fitzwilliam from his letters. According to these he had acted in strict conformity to his instructions, which went to the emancipation of the Catholics, a condition without which he would not have undertaken the commission entrusted to him. After the motion had been seconded by Sir William Milner, Mr. Powys for the sake of getting rid of it moved the other orders of the day.

Mr. Fox said, he certainly could not, like his honourable and learned friend, who made the present motion, allege that he had no particular acquaintance or intimacy with the noble earl; he could not possibly deny, that, through the whole of his political life, he had a friendship for the noble earl, a friendship and an intimacy in private, and, until lately, a connection in political affairs; a friendship formed on such a basis that no difference of opinion upon any subject could entirely do away. He thought he had a right to say, and he expected to be believed when he said, that however great such friendship might be, it could not warp his political opinion, nor affect his political conduct; for, however pleasing the preservation of that friendship and connection might be, he had never so regarded them, as not to consider them inferior to the consideration of his public duty, with which he never had nor should place

any thing in competition; therefore, this good he hoped would result to him, that as he had been so unfortunate as to differ from that noble earl upon political topics, the public would have no doubt that he was actuated by pure principles in endeavouring to promote the inquiry which was now proposed.

This inquiry was called for upon two grounds which were distinct from each other: first, with regard to Earl Fitzwilliam personally; secondly, with regard to the interest which the public had in the inquiry. The first of these was certainly the least important; but even supposing that the first was the only ground, he was of opinion it would have been sufficient to call upon the justice of the House to accede to the present motion. He confessed he could not go the length of agreeing entirely with his honourable and learned friend, that a dismission by administration of any individual must be regarded as a personal censure; but he agreed entirely that in this case an attempt had been made by his majesty's ministers to convey some censure on the character of the noble earl. He allowed that the prerogative of the crown to dismiss its officers, was such as was not upon all occasions to be questioned; but when exercised in an extraordinary manner it became the duty of that House to inquire into that exercise; and although he did not allow that every dismissal conveyed a censure upon an individual dismissed, yet he could not go the length of saying, that no circumstances under which a person may be dismissed could convey a stigma. In this case, he believed, the common sense of mankind was, that ministers had, in the manner in which the noble earl had been recalled, attempted to cast a stigma upon his character. There must be one of two reasons for the dismissal of the noble earl; either that he exercised his power as Lord Lieutenant very improperly, or that he misunderstood his instructions. Some strong reason the public must expect to have occasioned his recal, since it was a circumstance attended by great public inconvenience, great public risque, and many very strong remonstrances. Earl Fitzwilliam told us that he was dismissed, not for misunderstanding his instructions, not for making improper use of his power, but for acting, as he had been taught to think, in the manner which was the most agreeable to his employers. He told us, that he had been dismissed for acting in direct conformity to the instructions he received from the cabinet of Great Britain. But, if what had been declared in the parliament of Ireland was true, he acted not only contrary to the intentions of those who employed him, but with great imprudence and impropriety. If this be true, he was guilty of a great crime, for imprudence in a character of such eminence was a great crime. Here, therefore, Earl Fitzwilliam and ministers were at issue. The