RENEWAL OF THE EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER. May 13. HE House being in a committee upon the bill "for continuing Tie the possession of the East India company, for a further in term, the territorial acquisitions and revenues obtained in the East Indies, and for making further provision for the government and security of the said territories, and the appropriation of the revenues thereof, and for the further continuance of the exclusive trade of the said company, under certain limitations and restrictions, and more effectually securing the benefits thereof, and for applying part of the funds of the said company in the reduction of their debts, and appropriating the residue thereof for the benefit of the public, and of the said company, pursuant to an agreement made for that purpose," Mr. Fox said, he understood it was supposed by several gentlemen, that some objections were to be made to this bill before the Speaker left the chair, and that afterwards the clauses would be discussed; but, although he had great objec tions to the principle of the bill, as others might approve of the principle, and yet might have objections to some of the clauses, he had suffered the question for the Speaker leaving the chair to pass, that those gentlemen might follow their own ideas upon the subject without much impediment from him, particularly as what he had to urge might come at a future stage of the proceeding. He did not, however, wish to let one opportunity pass without entering his protest against some of the provisions of the bill. It was thirteen years since the sentiment of the public had been expressed in that House"that the influence of the crown had increased, was increasing, and ought to be diminished;" and he was sure, there was as much reason for that resolution now, as there was at that time. He objected, he said, to the mode in which this bill tended to extend that influence; and he must now call upon all those who in the year 1780 declared, that the influence of the crown ought to be diminished, to compare the influence then, and the influence now; and then to say, whether they could consistently vote for the clause which gave the nomination of three officers to the crown; whether they who voted for a bill brought in by a right honourable gentleman, (Mr. Burke,) a bill which would do him immortal honour; whether those gentlemen, he said, who had at that time entertained the sentiments they then professed upon the increase of the influence of the crown, could now vote for a measure which so obviously tended to increase that influence. He maintained, that the clause empowering the crown to nominate officers to act under this bill, and who were to be paid large salaries by the company, was wrong upon the principle of it. He thought that in all public situations, where officers were appointed to any place of trust, the public ought to pay them, because while the payment came from the public purse, the public had some check, by their representatives, over the conduct of such officers; but, by this bill, the public were to pay circuitously and obliquely, by and through the medium of the company; for the payment of these officers was so much in diminution of what the public would otherwise receive from the revenues of the company. He felt this, and he must add, that in proportion as the House felt the influence of the crown to be great, they should be impressed with a sense of their duty not to increase it. He had heard it said on former occasions, that the gentlemen acting in the affairs of India were mere birds of passage; if So, he was sure there could be no good reason for supposing that they would be less under the influence of the crown than if they were stationary, or that they were therefore the less likely to be corrupt. He should have other opportunities of delivering his sentiments upon this subject, and he should avail himself of them; but he took that occasion of calling the attention of the House to the point which he should afterwards take notice of. If gentlemen, who with him had voted, in the year 1780, upon the influence of the crown, had forgotten the reasons upon which the House came to that resolution-if they had forgotten all they formerly professed upon that subject, all he could say was, that he should do every thing in his power to refresh their recollection, and therefore it was that he wished what he had now hinted to be taken as a public notice. May 17. The report of the committee on the bill being brought up; on reading the clause to enable his majesty to appoint two additional commissioners for the management of the affairs of India, who are not privy councellors, and with certain fixed salaries, Mr. Fox said, that when a clause of this alarming nature, with respect to influence, came to be discussed, he could have wished to have seen in their places those honourable gentlemen who had expressed their sentiments so strongly on former occasions against the influence of the crown. It was surely, on every account, proper that they should come forward, and give a decided opinion on this question: let them say whether they had altered their former opinion; or, if they have not altered it, which he trusted they had not, whether they could reconcile the support of such a measure as the present with that opinion. Persons in their high situations ought to attend and give their votes. He would wish to know from them, how far they thought it right to go, in cases of danger and emergency, in support of any plans brought forward by ministers; and whether they were never to oppose this shameless increase of influence. As to the thing itself, there were two very considerable offices, with certain fixed salaries, added to the patronage of the crown. It was, indeed, hinted, that perhaps some offices, belonging to another kingdom, held at present by persons in this country, would be taken off from the patronage here; but, be that as it might, would not the patronage of another country bear upon this? When the board of control was first appointed, it was said there were to be no salaries; and surely this country was never in a situation which called for stricter economy than when we were involved in war, and in difficulties of which we could not see a probable speedy termination. However great his personal respect for the honourable gentlemen he had alluded to, he could not but complain of their absence; and he called, too, upon all those who, in the year 1780, joined in the vote of that House, that the influence of the crown had increased, was increasing, and ought to be diminished, to come forward: let them say whether they were then right; and, if so, whether that influence had since decreased. With respect to his majesty's privy counsellors, there were surely many of them who possessed lucrative offices under the crown, who might have leisure sufficient to attend to the business of the board of control; such as the treasurer of the household, the postmasters general, the treasurer of the navy, &c. If this were not the case, the appointment of this board of control, in the manner it was held out at first, was nothing but a deceit practised upon the public. Mr. Fox said, he was determined to take the sense of the House that night; and, if he was then unsuccessful, to do so in any future stage of the bill, where the forms of the House would permit him, with respect to this particular clause, as he was resolved it should not be said that a fair opportunity had not been given to every gentleman to give his vote and opinion. If he limited his opposition, at present, to that clause alone, it was not because he did not dislike many other parts of the bill, but because he → did not wish now to mix any other part of it with this. He did not wish to say any thing personal to the right honourable gentleman opposite to him, (Mr. Dundas,) who was not only treasurer of the navy, but also secretary of state and president of the board of control. He alluded to this for no other purpose than to ask if that right honourable gentleman had, for two years past, discharged the important duties of secretary of state, and at the same time had acted as president to the board of control, whether a treasurer of the household, or a postmaster general, might not have had leisure to act in the same capacity? He would only farther observe, that as it was held out that, when offices were divided, there should be additional salaries, it would seem to follow that, when they were united, there should be a saving to the public, though he had never heard that this had taken place with respect to the right honourable gentleman, or that he did not receive the salaries and emoluments of all the different offices held by him. The House divided: for the clause 113: against it 42. May 24. On the order of the day for the third reading of the bill, Mr. Fox said, that having before delivered his opinion upon the subject of the amendment, which he meant to propose, he would not trouble the House with a repetition of the arguments on which he founded that opinion; but as he had given notice that he should again object to that part of the bill which went to the creation of new offices in the gift of the crown, in order that those with whom he had formerly concurred in a vote for reducing the influence of the crown, might have an opportunity of delivering their sentiments on the proposed increase of that influence, he certainly should take the sense of the House upon it. If they still concurred with him in the opinions they had formerly professed, it became them, like men who acted from a sense of duty, unbiassed by any temporary motives, to maintain those opinions by their votes on the present occasion. If, on the contrary, their opinions had changed, if they had abandoned the principles upon which he and they had formerly combated the increasing influence of the crown, it became them, in that case also, as men who acted from conviction, to avow that change, to explain the reasons of it, and to confirm it by their votes. In no case could he conceive it to be proper or consistent with their duty and their character, to absent themselves, and leave persons who were less inclined to put a candid construction on their motives than he was, at liberty to suppose that they were either afraid to avow the change that had taken place in their opinions, or that, if they still adhered to them, they were unwilling, on account of some peculiar circumstances at the present moment, to take that part which their duty required. At all events, he had done his duty, by giving them this opportunity of delivering their sentiments, and should content himself, without farther trespassing on the time of the House, by moving to leave out the words "and such two persons as his majesty, his heirs, and successors shall think fit." After Mr. Sheridan had said a few words, the House divided on the question, "That those words stand part of the bill." YEAS Tellers. Tellers. {Col. Fitzpatrick} 30. 123.- -NOES {Mr. H. Hobart} Mr. Whitbread The amendment proposed by Mr. Fox was consequently rejected. After which, Mr. Fox again rose and said: When, Sir, the subject was first brought under the consideration of the House, I did expect, that a committee of inquiry would have been appointed, to call for and to examine the requisite evidence, which could alone enable us to form our opinions upon so important a subject, as the government and trade of India; and I did expect, that from such a committee a report would have issued, founded upon the whole of this evidence, and that, upon the different branches of the subject, the House would have sat, and solemnly and deliberately determined, what that system is, which is required for the administration of our Indian empire and trade. Was this the case? Nothing like it! On the contrary, the only evidence before the House, that I know of is, that some weeks past, a capital speech was made by the minister for India, giving a general account of the government and trade of our provinces, and pointing out the propriety and necessity of renewing the company's charter, and so forth. In this capital speech, not a word was heard of the proposed increase of the influence of the crown, although this was a necessary consequence of the system which it recommended. To this increase I object, and I feel it to be my duty solemnly to protest against it, as fraught with danger to the constitution, and as a measure which could only have been devised by the most strenuous advocates for despotic power. Why is this influence dangerous? Because it is irresponsible. Is it to be placed in the hands of those who are to be vested with the real power? No: it is to be given to their agents and dependents, whose |