In summary, the Department of Defense would be pleased to cooperate in a program to demonstrate solar heating and solar heating and cooling at selected family housing sites at Defense installations on a fully reimbursable basis.

Thank you very much. That completes my statement.

Mr. McCORMACK. Thank you very much for the excellent testimony. There are several questions which I have.

First of all I want to express my appreciation to you for your testimony on this particular subject and for the Department of Defense in cooperating in these projects.

There are several questions that come to mind, however. The first one is, it strikes me that the Defense Department is such a logical organization to conduct this work, and this sort of study. Therefore, it would seem to me that you would pursue this more aggressively than you indicated when you said the DOD monitored research and so forth. I am curious about the basic philosophy, knowing very well how the Defense Department works.

I realize, of course, it is not a freewheeling organization. It is highly structured. Yet, it seems with all the housing in the bases that exist, it would be made to order for a rather freewheeling series of experiments that you would initiate on your own on a rather massive scale. Do you care to comment on the general philosophy of this?

Admiral SONENSHEIN. First, the Department of Defense has certain statutory obligations to be performed, basically to maintain and support the Armed Forces. We also have heavy responsibilities in research and development. This entails a very large program. Nonetheless, the funds available for this are not always adequate for the needs of the Defense organizations, primarily for the operational and weapons systems. Other agencies of the Government are appropriately charged to do research and development in their respective areas. We think that it is very important that each provide such support within its own sphere.

In the work of which I am in charge, we have struggled with this very issue of how to structure an R. & D. program. We tried to rationalize for ourselves so that we could proceed intelligently. We concluded that there are four energy-related areas in which the Department of Defense should do its research and development.

They are, first, improvements in the propulsion of mobile systems such as ships, tanks, and aircraft, which are the main reason for our existence as far as weapons systems are concerned.

Second, the development of future fuel systems,

Third, and this is pertinent to today's hearing, in the reduction of energy consumption of bases and facilities, and

Fourth, the development of advanced energy sources. Those are the four primary areas in which we consider the Department of Defense should be working. Having laid out that background, we had to conclude what should be our role in each area considering that which is assigned to other Government agencies and the private sector. There are four basic roles that one can take. One is to lead, one is to participate, one is to monitor, and the other is to incentives. Obviously, a lead role involves major funding or commitment. Participation is a lesser

role and monitoring is still smaller. The fourth one would, of course, be subject to the availability of funds as appropriated by the Congress. Now, having done that, we also divided the proposed R. & D. gram in time phases. Thus, we have a three-sided situation; with four areas and four roles in three timespans. When these elements were aggregated, we could consider the whole picture.

Our conclusion with regard to the development of solar energy sources in relation to all of the other possible efforts is that DOD should play a monitor role. The DOD, in our monitor role, would provide the funds and the support for testing facilities and also provide demonstration sites.

Mr. McCORMACK. Thank you, I appreciate your remarks. I am advised that we are to proceed with testimony of Mr. Meisen and then we could come back and have any further questions from either you or Mr. Meisen. I note that Mr. Meisen is here and that he is the Assistant Commissioner for Construction Management, Public Buildings Service of the GSA.

You may proceed.

[A biographical sketch of Mr. Meisen follows:]

WALTER A. MEISEN, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER FOR CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT, PUBLIC BUILDING SERVICE, GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION

As a registered architect and the top architect at GSA, Walter A. Meisen is responsible for the administration of GSA's nation-wide design and construction program with a volume in excess of $1 billion annually. In contacts, speeches and testimony, he represents GSA as its expert in design and construction.

Mr. Meisen came to GSA from the Public Health Service in 1958. He rose to become Chief of the Design Branch in Region 3 with design administration responsibility over a $100 million new construction and renovation program. From that position Meisen was brought to GSA's Central Office to administer the $500 million worth of work under design as the head of the Design Division in the Office of Design and Construction. This office was reorganized as the Office of Construction Management with Meisen as its head.

Throughout this advance, Meisen has increased his management skills as well as his architectural experience. In 1959 he received a two-year tuition-free Federal Career Scholarship from Southeastern University where he studied management. He successfully completed a six-month Interdepartmental Middle Management Program with the Civil Service Commission in 1960. In February of 1967, Meisen was presented the National Capital Award for Professional Architectural Achievement by the D.C. Council of Engineering and Architectural Societies in recognition of his effective and efficient administration of GSA's Region 3 design program. In May of 1971, he was awarded the William A. Jump Memorial Award for Exemplary Achievement in Public Administration.

Most recently Meisen's abilities were recognized by President Nixon in a letter commending him as the architect on the very successful Federal lighting program in Washington, D.C.

Meisen is a native New Yorker and graduate of Stuyvesant High School in Manhattan. He was graduated from City College of New York in 1956 with a B.S. Degree and honors in Architecture. Meisen became a registered architect, State of Maryland, through National Examination. He is a member of the Potomac Valley Chapter, American Institute of Architects.

Meisen is a constantly sought speaker on the basic issues confronting the building industry. He has frequently appeared on major national forums as the principal speaker on such crucial subjects as construction management, phased construction, the Building Team, building systems and systems building, educating architects and engineers for tomorrow's practice and project management. Meisen brings to all these subjects a persuasive message of original and unique theory that has been tested and refined by innovative applications in his own organization.

Meisen, age 38, lives at 9117 Volunteer Drive, Alexandria, Virginia, with his wife, Veronica, and their four children.

STATEMENT OF WALTER A. MEISEN, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER FOR CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT, PUBLIC BUILDINGS SERVICE OF THE GSA

Mr. MEISEN. Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, I am Walter A. Meisen, Assistant Commissioner for Construction Management, Public Buildings Service, General Services Administration.

I am pleased to expand upon my testimony of June 12, 1973, on solar energy before this committee. I made certain points which should be reemphasized.

One, we (GSA) believe the technology and hardware is available to begin making large solar energy collectors.

Two, additional research and development is needed to improve the technology and bring down the costs of solar energy installations.

In conjunction with the National Science Foundation and the National Bureau of Standards, GSA has moved forward in the design, construction, and operation of buildings utilizing solar energy. The Saginaw, Mich., and Manchester, N.H., demonstration projects will have solar collectors. The solar collector on the Saginaw demonstration project will be 40 feet high and 200 feet long. It is fixed, faces south, and is tilted at an angle of approximately 30 degrees from the vertical to obtain maximum energy from the Sun considering the geographical location of Saginaw. The design of the solar collector and associated systems is complete. Its appearance will be bold and dramatic. GSA has taken the lead in the design and construction of solar collectors for office buildings. We hope to extend this program to other buildings. GSA buildings are scattered throughout the Nation and would provide wide climatic variations.

There are several observations we'd like to share with you concerning H.R. 10952. Several agencies in the Federal Government are vitally concerned with solar energy and the much broader energy question itself. While solar energy is important and holds great potential as a pollution-free energy source, it must be viewed as only part of the solution to the overall energy problem. The amount and extent of funding for the programs described in H.R. 10952 should be contingent on an overall development plan affecting all potential energy resources and their systems. The placement in the Federal bureaucracy and the administration of this proposal should also be considered in conjunction with an overall plan for energy development.

Our concern is the energy conservation effort of the Federal Government will become fragmented. To prevent such fragmentation. the research and development activities and funding of energy programs (including solar energy) should be coordinated through one agency. For this reason President Nixon has proposed the establishment of The Energy Research and Development Administration as contained in H.R. 9090.

The technology for the manufacture and use of solar energy collectors is available and has been used in other parts of the world. Its commercial application and use in this country have been limited because of the availability of other inexpensive energy sources.

A third observation is the bill limits the design competition associated with the development of solar heating and solar heating and

cooling systems for residential dwellings to A-E's. Many industrial and manufacturing firms could make a major contribution to this effort. Their ability in mass production is an essential input to practical commercial development of the solar energy utilizing systems proposed by the bill. Many firms are already testing prototype units for residential and commercial application.

The solar energy collectors on our two demonstration projects discussed earlier will significantly reduce the energy supplied from other sources to the buildings. We have learned a great deal in the process regarding the application and use of energy from solar collectors. We will learn and share even more as these collectors and their accompanying systems are built. Much more remains to be done to fully utilize this inexhaustible nonpolluting source of energy.

This concludes my prepared statement. However, if you or members of the subcommittee have any questions, I shall be happy to answer them at this time or furnish the desired information for the record.

Mr. McCORMACK. Go ahead, Mr. Wydler.

Mr. WYDLER. Tell me something about the building that you are building in Saginaw, Mich. Is this a commercial building or an office building?

Mr. MEISEN. A Federal office building.

Mr. WYDLER. How big is the office building? How many square feet does it have?

Mr. MEISEN. 50,000 square feet.

Mr. WYDLER. This is 200 feet long by 40 feet high?

Mr. MEISEN. It is an 8,000 square feet collector. We estimate it will furnish, considering all days of the year, about 70 percent of the energy required for heating the building.

Mr. WYDLER. A 50,000 square foot building?

Mr. MEISEN. That concerns the floor space.

Mr. WYDLER. I am confused because we have testimony by witnesses from NASA this week, and as I remember, they had a one-story building, and the figures they gave us indicated, according to the materials they were going to use, you would need about 1 square foot of paneling for every square foot of building.

You are getting away with considerably less. I am trying to understand this. You are talking here about 8,000 square feet of paneling. Mr. MEISEN. I am not sure what they were using the solar collector for. We would not be generating electrical energy for this building. We are heating the building with this and furnishing approximately 70 percent of the heating for both domestic and water and building heat.

If you include generation of electricity through some means connected with solar energy, you would need much more.

Now, our feeling is that on the average day we will have enough to totally heat the building. There may be periods of 4 or 5 days where the sky is cloudy and we do not get as much output. We estimate 70 percent over a year.

Mr. WYDLER. How many stories high is it?

Mr. MEISEN. One story high, but it is terraced.

Mr. WYDLER. Have you spoken to NASA or anybody about this building?

Mr. MEISEN. We met with NASA in Houston.

Mr. WYDLER. Could you give me some idea as to how much more this building would cost than if you just built a regular office building?

Mr. MEISEN. We are doing many things besides the solar collectors. Basically, this is an environmental demonstration project. I can say I think the solar collector will cost between $300,000 and $500,000. A comparable conventional heating system would not cost anywhere near that. It might cost $50,000 to $75,000.

We are going ahead with this because we do not think technology is the big detriment here. We think demonstrating appropriateness and the workability and mass production techniques is the most critical thing. If we waited until the internal combustion engine was perfected before we mass produced it, it probably would not be at the advanced state as of today.

We think there is enough technology available to start looking at some of the production techniques necessary to bring the cost down. We think they are hand made at this time and that is what is keeping the cost up. We have a coil with some insulation and covering. All that it requires, we think, is some form of modular design, as the admiral had indicated.

Therefore, we feel it is time to start building and stop talking about this. I think that is the essence of the bill before you.

Mr. WYDLER. Is the equipment that you ordered specially made equipment?

Mr. MEISEN. Yes. There are really no modules available to select from a catalog. Therefore, we designed one using the technology that is available from whatever source we could find. This will be a customtype design.

I would have preferred to have been able to buy one that was already in production or the components that were in production.

Mr. WYDLER. The solar collector, is that on the building itself? Mr. MEISEN. It is above the building. It is an environmental demonstration project, Saginaw has a plan to have a pedestrian mall, just as we have in Washington. The building acts as a terminus for the mall. This becomes almost a covered type canopy for the end of the mall.

I can furnish photographs.

Mr. WYDLER. I think that would be good.

Mr. McCORMACK. Yes; I wonder if you could also send us backup data on the building, such as the size and the cost. Please send us this information.

Mr. MEISEN. Yes; I will furnish it.

[Information requested for the record follows:]

ENVIRONMENTAL DEMONSTRATION PROJECT-FEDERAL OFFICE BUILDING

SAGINAW, MICH.

SECTION

The new Federal Office Building to be constructed in Saginaw, Michigan, was designated by Mr. Arthur F. Sampson, Head of the General Services Administration, as the GSA Environmental Demonstration Building on June 19, 1972.