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2. Do you remember Mr. Dallas quitting his place before he began to address the Jury?
A. I do, perfectly. Q. And Mr. Plumer also, I believe ? - A. I do not.
2. Do you recollect Mr. Ferguson leaving his own place, in consequence of that?
A. I am rather inclined to think it was so; but I cannot swear to that.
2. I understand you to swear most positively that Mr. Fergusson never interposed between the jailor and Mr. O'Connor ?
1. I do moft positively swear I do not think he did, and if he had, I think I must have seen it.
Cross-examined by Mr. Garrow. Q. The dock or bar, by which the Bow.street officers were placed, could only occupy five or fix perfons ?
A. No more.
2. You Itated that after the sentence of death had been passed, and Mr. O'Connor had been left upon the floor, the officer pressed forward to apprehend him--What induced you to think these were officers rushing forwards for that purpose ?
A. I took them to be the persons who had produced the warrant in Court. When they had forced themselves up to the end of the Solicitors' feat, Mr. Fergusson said, I think, “ here are two men obtruding themselves between the prisoners and the jury." Mr. Justice Buller said, “What are you about ; fit down ;' and one of them produced a paper, faying either that it was a warrant to take up Mr. O'Connor, or a warrant upon a charge of high treason against Mr. O'Connor, or some thing to that effect; and therefore I supposed them to be Bowstreet officers, or officers of justice.
Q. I do not know whether you happened to be present in Court when those two witnesses were examined as witnesses to prove the fact of apprehending Mr. O'Connor at Margate ?
A. I should suppose I was in Court, but I am not certains
2. But before the judgment of death was paffed, it is pera fectly in your recollection, that one of those persons had hinted in Court, that they had a warrant for the purpose of apprehend. ing Mr. O'Connor ?
A. That was after the jury had returned their verdict, and before that verdict was pronounced.
know Mr. O'Brien ?
. Q. You did not know him at Maidstone ? A. No; I did not,
Mr. Maxwell fworn, examined by Mr. Erskine. Q. Was you in Court, at Maidstone, during any part of the trial of Mr. O'Connor and others ?
A, I was, frequently.
2. Did you hear Mr. Justice Buller pronounce sentence of death upon O'Coigly?
A. I did.
A. At that time I was immediately to the left of the witą ness-box, rather farther from the Judge than the witness-box.
Q. Was you elevated above the Court
Q. Did that elevation and pofition give you a view of that part of the Court where the Bow-street officers entered, and where the Solicitors for the prisoner sat ? A. That gave me a distinct view of that
of the Court. 2. Do you remember when Mr. Justice Buller had finished pronouncing sentence upon Mr. O'Coigly-do you remember any persons rushing forwards, as if to leize Mr. O'Connor ?
A. I remember some of the Bow-street officers, among whom I knew Rivett and Fugion, rushed violently to that place where Mr. O'Connor was.
Q. At the time that those two persons, Rivett and Fugion, rushed forwards in the direction you have described, did you observę where Lord Thanet was?
A. I did ; my Lord Thanet fat at that time in the Solicitors' place.
Q. Did you observe where Mr. Fergusson was at the same time?
A. Mr. Ferguson fat in his own place, where he had been as Counfel for some time, on the bench before the Solicitors' bench.
Q: Which of them was nearer to that side of the Court where the jury-box is, and where Mr. O'Connor was?
A. I think Lord Thanet was rather, perhaps, the nearest of the two ; but there was very little difference.
9. Did you see any thing pass between Rivett the officer, and Lord Thanet ?
A. I did.
A. Ajter Rivett had forcibly overturned and driven from their places those who stood between him and Mr. O'Connor, be fot to Lord Thanet, who was one of the nearest. Lord Thanet, when he was pressed upon, got out of the place where he was,, and went from the scene of tumult towards the table. 2. Was that farther from the prisoners than he was before ?
4. Considerably farther from the prisoners than when he, was first pressed upon.
Q. When Lord Thanet' retired in that manner out of the Solicitors”. box, over towards the Counsels' table, did Rivett pursue his course on towards the prisoners in the line of the Solicitors' box, or what?
A. He followed Lord Thanet, and Atruck bin repeatedly.
Q. Had Lord Thanet Aruck Rivett before he went over. from the Solicitor's feat towards the table ? A. Lord Thanet never
struck Rivett before nor after that. 2. Had you such a view of the situation in which Lord Thanet was placed, and what he did, as to swear merely to your opinion and belief, or do you swear it positively?
A. I had such a view, that I swear it positively : by that time I had quitted the place where I was, and got nearer to Lord Thanet and the other persons who were ftruck.
2. Were any other persons struck besides Lord Thanet ?
Ă. I saw several blows given, but I cannot say to whom, by · the Bow-street officers and those who followed them.
Q. Do you know whether Rivett struck any person besides Lord Thanet ?
A. I do not positively know whether he struck any person
Q. But you swear positively Lord Thanet did not Arike Rivett at all ?
A. He did not; but merely put himself in a posture of defence and lying back upon the table.
2. Had Lord Thanet a stick ?
A. He had a small stick; which he held up over his head to defend himself; he was leaning back upon the table, an attitude in which it would have been difficult to have acted offensively,
Q. Did you see Lord Thanet subsequent to the time that he was in that situation?
A. I did.
Q. You say that the officers, and particularly Rivett, rushed into the Court, and having passed, one or two that were before Lord Thanet attacked Lord Thanet ; what length of time might elapse between Rivett first rushing in and the time be Aruck Lord Thanet ?
A. A very short space of time indeed.
Q. Was it possible that before Rivett Aruck Lord Thanet be could have gone within the Counsels' place, where you have described Mr. Ferguson to be, and have wrested a stick out of bis hand before he came to Lord Thanet?
A. Rivėtt did not go to take a pick out of his hand, for be had no fick in his hand; ke did not go up to Mr. Fergusson, but immediately went up, to Lord Thanet and Aruck bime
Q. If Rivett should have faid here, that he never
faw bard Thanet till after he had taken a stick from Mr. Ferguson, from, what you observed is that true or falje?
A. I foould certainly say it were falfe, without any befitation.
Q. During the time that you thus observed Lord Thanet in the attitude of defence, retreating from the scene of tumult, and parsued by Rivett, where was Mr. Fergusion ?
4. He was in his place, and remained in his place till he was pressed upon, and then he got out of the scene of tumult upon the table.
2. Did you see him while he was in his seat, and did you fee him move from his feat to the table by the pressure that
him? A. I did.
Q. If, whilf Mr. Ferguson was in his feat, or if while be was preffed upon when he roje from his seat, if in either of these fatuations he had not only had a fick but had brandished and Acurished that stick, I ask, muft you have seen it or not?
A. I must have seen it; be was so directly before me, that it is quite impossible but I should have seen it; I CAN SWEAR THAT MR. FERGUSSON HAD NOTHING IN HIS HAND, BUT A .
ROLL OF PAPER IN HIS RIGHT HAND.
& And was in his profeffional dress? A. He was.
Q. If Mr. Ferguffon had done any one act to encourage the tumult that was undoubtedly then existing, or done any one act inconsistent with his duty as Counsel, or committed any one act of indecency or turbulence, muft you have seen it?
A. I must.
Q. Then let me ask you, upon your solemn oath, did he do any such thing?
A. He did not : on the contrary, he endeavoured to keep quiet in the Court, by admonishing the people in Court to be quiet. Mr. Fergusson said particularly to Rivett, when he was striking Lord Thanet- do you know who you are strikingi that is not a person likely to begin a riot.
2. Did you see where Mr. Fergusson went to after he was upon the table :
A. He got upon the table; and got farther from the scene of tumult; and I do not know whether he sat down upon the table or not ; he went towards the Crown Lawyers. Q. Did
fee Sir Francis Burdett? A. I did. He at first stood by me in the witness-box, and when the confusion began he got nearer to the place of confufion at the same time that I did. I saw Mr. Fergusson re move Sir Francis Burdert from the scene of canfufion, and puç him farther from it.
- Q And you saw him also place himself at a diftance from it?
Q. Did you afterwards see him go upon the table towards the Judges?
Å. I did; I saw him till all the violence was over.
Q. Then can you take upon you to swear positively that neither Mr. Ferguson nor Lord Thanet, during the tumult, went towards Mr. O'Connor ?
A. They went in a directly opposite direction.
Q. Do you swear that from your own opinion and belief, or from certain knowledge ?
A. I swear it positively from certain knowledge.
Cross-examined by Mr. Adam.
2. You faw Rivett and Fugios pressing forward?
A. I knew them from having feen them examined in Court upon that trial.
Q. Only from that circumstance ?
2. During this affray you shifted your fituation to another
Q. And you say you faw Sir Francis Burdett fhift his place?
A. He shifted his place at the same time.
A. I cannot say whether he remained upon the table, but he went there with me.
2. Did he remain on the table any confiderable time? A. The tumult was over very soon after that.
Q. The Counsel for the Crown fat immediately under the witness-box?
A. They sat on the fame fide.
Q. Therefore it was necessary when you and Sir Francis Burdett shifted your places, that you should go over the heads of the Counsel for the Crown, to get to the table ?
4. Exactly fo; we jumped from the neighbourhood of the witness-box. & Do you remember when Sir Francis Burdett jumped from