mand; the next 50,000 kilowatt-hours per kilowatt of demand at 5 mills or one-half of 1 cent; and all in excess of 65,000 at 3 mills per kilowatt-hour of demand. In comparing those rates quoted on the barracks which were referred to a while ago, the effective rate on this same schedule as applied to the barracks was 9 mills plus, as opposed to about a 4-mill effective rate under the public-utility district proposal. Mr. SMITH. All of this great industrial expansion at Vancouver that you spoke about has come about as a direct result of developing cheap hydroelectric power at Bonneville, has it not? Mr. CAPLES. That is right. That is exactly the reason for it, because Vancouver is at the head of deep-water navigation, deep-sea navigation, and has transcontinental railroads and highways through it. Mr. SMITH. But if that power were not available there, it is very unlikely that there would have been any of this industrial development? Mr. CAPLES. I am sure that there would not have been, Mr. Congressman. Senator BONE. You have observed over the years a continuous development down in your section of the State of public-ownership sentiment, have you not? Mr. CAPLES. That is correct. I think that it has more backing now than it ever did have. Senator BONE. I want the committee to understand that this is not merely an expression of the views of eight Members of Congress from the State of Washington, but that they, in turn, are reflecting what is obviously the sentiment and the views of the people of their State. Mr. CAPLES. If you did not, we would not have the two Senators and the six Representatives that we have from our State. Senator BONE. You would not have a solid delegation standing for a principle of this kind-and I think that that is rather revealing. You do not find a delegation from a State entirely for one thing unless there is a fundamental reason for it. Mr. SMITH. And we have enjoyed the unlimited opposition of the private power interest, have we? That applies to every member of the delegation. Senator BONE. I think that it might be well, Mr. Caples, because you are certainly one of the well-informed men of the State, to make one final statement to the committee. Could you state to the gentlemen of the committee whether or not the Members of Congress from Washington have fully revealed to the voters their views on this power question, and, if so, whether they did it in such fashion that there would be no lack of understanding on the part of the voters? Mr. CAPLES. You mean that the Members have expressed themselves to their constituents on this question? Senator BONE. Yes. Mr. CAPLES. There has never been any question about it, Senator Bone. Senator OVERTON. Have they had any candidates running against them on this issue taking the side of the private power companies? Mr. CAPLES. Any of our delegation? Senator OVERTON. No; has there been an election at which candidates for both sides of the issue have expressed themselves? Mr. CAPLES. Oh, yes; quite currently; not in the public-utility district election itself, but so far as other elections are concerned. Senator OVERTON. I am talking about elections to Congress. Mr. CAPLES. That is true in a number of instances. Senator OVERTON. Those opposed to public control have been defeated, have they, and those in favor of it have been elected? Mr. CAPLES. That is correct. Senator OVERTON. How long has that been going on? Mr. CAPLES. Well, Senator Bone started this fight- Mr. CAPLES (resuming). Thirty years ago, and there has never been any question about where he stood on it. Senator OVERTON. How long has this issue been raised in the State, when it comes to the election of Senators and Representatives to Congress? Mr. CAPLES. Oh, I would say Mr. SMITH. Ten years. Mr. CAPLES (resuming). Ten or fifteen years; yes. That has been a very vital issue, and one in which the people have been particularly interested. The people are so constituted out there that that is the first thing they demand of a candidate, to know how he stands on it. Senator BONE. Senator Dill was elected in 1922, and that was a definite factor in his election, and that was 20 years ago. Senator OVERTON. I suppose now that all candidates stand for public power? Mr. CAPLES. No. Some of them are foolish enough not to, and some try to straddle the fence, but the people out there want a very positive statement and not any equivocation at all. Mr. SMITH. You are familiar with Clark County, and you will recall that in 1936 and 1938 we had the issue of the adoption of the P. U. D.'s before the voters in the general fall election, and that in every speech that I made in Clark County, I urged the people to vote for the adoption of the P. U. D., despite the fact that there were a few of my friends, I admit, in Clark County who told me that when I got in certain places I should soft-pedal the issue, because it was not so hot, but I think that you were with the caravan when we went through the county, you and I and all of us, and on some of those trips Senator Bone was with us, and we urged the people to vote for the P. U. D., and we got licked in 1936 by better than 2 to 1, but in 1938 we went to town with it and made an issue of it and, of course, we won out-that is true, is it? Mr. CAPLES. That is true. I think I know something about that. Mr. SMITH. You were county chairman, I believe, in that campaign? Mr. CAPLES. No. Mr. SMITH. You were State chairman for the Democratic Party? Mr. CAPLES. State chairman, and I know the situation over the State pretty well, because I followed a great many of those caravans. Mr. SMITH. Is it not a fact that the newspapers, when Bonneville was first advocated, opposed it as a boondoggling project, and that 74169-42-pt. 1-40 we had a lot of opposition from the press generally throughout southwest Washington? Mr. CAPLES. In Clark County a local newspaper brought a suit against the P. U. D. to compel them to surrender all of the records of the public-utility district and make them available to the press. We successfully resisted it, and the papers since that time have had a change of heart, and they have been cooperating. Previous to that time, they were fighting us bitterly, and if we had another election they would still fight us, because the local power companies advertise heavily in the papers. Mr. SMITH. But this change of heart came about after they were defeated? Mr. CAPLES. Oh, yes. Senator BONE. May I ask what the plans of the committee are for tomorrow? Senator OVERTON. We will convene at the regular hour, at 10:30, and the Washington Water Power Co. is going to send two representatives of that system to be heard, and I thought that we would start with them. Senator BONE. Have you been advised who they are? Senator OVERTON. No; I have not. Have you some witnesses for tomorrow? Senator BONE. No; but I have another one in mind. I thought that Dr. Raver probably might care to appear, if the committee wanted to ask him to come, and make a general statement. (After further informal discussion off the record, the committee recessed until Thursday morning, June 18, 1942, at 10:30 o'clock.) COLUMBIA POWER ADMINISTRATION THURSDAY, JUNE 18, 1942 JOINT SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON The joint subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment on Wednesday, June 17, 1942, at 10:30 a. m., in Room 135, Senate Office Building. Present: Senators Overton (presiding) and Burton, and Representatives Smith, Peterson, Dondero, and Angell. Also present: Senator Homer T. Bone, of Washington. I submit for incorporation in the record the following telegram, which reads: Senator JOHN H. OVERTON, United States Senate, Washington, D. C.: JUNE 18, 1942. As city commissioners of Port Angeles, Wash., operating our own public utilities, we favor passage of Bone-Smith bill if same provides for regional automony and three-man board. J. LYLE BEAM, H. H. BEETLE, I have a letter from a representative of a group who are substantial holders of Puget Sound Power & Light Co. 6-percent preferred stock. I will ask that it be incorporated in the record. It is along the lines. of another communication that I have already read. This group favors the Bone bill. (The letter referred to is as follows:) Senator JOHN H. OVERTON, 1206 PACIFIC MUTUAL BUILDING, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. Los Angeles, June 16, 1942. DEAR SENATOR OVERTON: I represent a group who are substantial stockholders of Puget Sound Power & Light Co. 6 percent preferred stock. If you wish to identify the stock, it is shown on the stock records as standing in the name of Foster, Marvin & Co., 120 Broadway, New York. It is not necessary to discuss the merits or the demerits of public ownership of electric power and light properties, as the people of the State of Washington have expressed their preference for municipal ownership. That being the case, it would appear to be the logical method of procedure to have all the properties in the State taken over by a combination of Federal and municipal power authorities as provided in the Bone bill. As the situation now stands, the private power companies are handicapped in their future planning because of the threat of public ownership. It is impossible for them to provide for their future power requirements and make necessary improvements as their usual means of financing are no longer open to them. The possibility of competition from public projects and the partial dismemberment of utility properties by condemnation creates a financial and operating problem that can only be solved by acquisition at a fair price of all the utility properties in the State of public power authorities. We, therefore, hope that your committee will report the Bone bill favorably and help expedite its passage through Congress. We believe that the holders of the 6 percent preferred stock, who are the real owners of the equity in the company, will be glad to cooperate if a fair price is established for their holdin Very truly yours, LUTHER C. ANDERSON. I receive letters and telegrams every day from individuals, but I am not incorporating them in the record. I am simply submitting, as chairman, those that I receive from public agencies and from private power companies or organizations, civic or private, that represent some substantial group. Mr. ANGELL. Mr. Chairman, while you are mentioning that subject, I have two communications, one in favor of and one opposed to the bill. One is a telegram from the city of Medford, and it reads as follows: Hon. HOMER ANGELL, Member of Congress, House Office Building, Washington, D. C. JUNE 17, 1942. Council, city of Medford. has adopted resolution opposing Pacific Northwest power empire bill, being House Resolution 6890. Copy of resolution following. You are requested to present this opposition to the committee. F. P. FARRELL, City Attorney. I have a communication from the Oregon State Grange. I would like to have that incorporated in the record. Senator OVERTON. That is perfectly all right. Mr. ANGELL. The Oregon State Grange is in favor of the bill. (The communication referred to is as follows:) SUBSTITUTE RESOLUTION NO. -, ENDORSING SENATE BILL 2430 (BONE BILL) AND CONCURRING IN PREVIOUS ACTION OF THE MASTER AND CERTAIN POMONA AND SUBORDINATE GRANCES (Substitute for Resolutions Nos. 5, 6, 62, 69, and 85) Whereas the State Granges of Oregon and Washington, their Pomonas and subordinates, have over the years worked for and carried forward educational programs and legislation for the development of public power for the benefit of all the people; and Whereas these two great organizations, representative of agriculture, together with other organizations working for public power, were successful in securing the Federal development of the Bonneville and Grand Coulee projects; and the enactment of the present Bonneville Act by the Congress of the United States with the provisions that the benefits of the cheap electric power generated at the Bonneville project shall go to the general public, and particularly to the rural and domestic customers; and public bodies, such as power districts, municipalities, and cooperatives should have priority and preference to those benefits; and Whereas only the Federal Government can plan and execute these and other projects of the magnitude required for the proper utilization and conservation of the electrical energy available in the Northwest; and Whereas the present Bonneville Act does not include these and other provisions found necessary to secure the full benefits of the cheap power generated at the Grand Coulee and other projects for the development of the Columbia River; and Whereas it is necessary and desirable that these same provisions apply to all Federal public power projects developed in the region; and |