he was able to any thing that was objected to | since the act of Parliament, as white salt, and him. That perhaps would be the course there should be no distinction in the duty; which the House would adopt in this case. The question was then put, "That so much "of the minutes of the evidence given before "the Dunfermline committee as relates to "James Trotter, be laid before this House :" which was ordered, whereas at present the bushel of bay salt, [SALT.]-General GASCOIGNE rose for the purpose, he said, of moving, pursuant to notice, for leave to bring in a bill to equalize by weight the bushel of all salt imported into that part of the United Kingdom called Ireland. He entered much at large into the history of the regulation of this article from the statute of the 4th of Anne, c. 14, down to the present moment, and observed that his object was, in point of fact, to lower the duty upon English salt imported into Ireland, by equalizing the duty upon all salt imported into that country. That was the effect of his motion. At present, all salt imported into Ireland bore a certain duty per bushel; but there was, however, an essential difference in the duty on the different sorts of salt imported into Ireland, and that difference arose from the difference of quantity which the bushels contained. The salt which was imported into Ireland from Portugal and Spain, which was commonly called bay salt, contained 84 pounds weight in the bushel; whereas the salt which was imported from this country into Ireland contained no more than 56 pounds weight to the bushel, and yet the duty was the same on both; his object was to make the duties equal in each, and he argued upon the policy of so doing. He said it would lower the price of English salt in Ireland, which was a very great object, and which the people of that country would receive as a great boon. He reminded the Chancellor of the Exchequer of England of his promise to diminish the duty upon salt soon after he came into office, and observed" that it was a promise which was received with great joy all over the country here and in Ircland: he maintained it was politic to do so, on account of the importance of this article to various branches of our manufactures and trades in the curing of provisions, &c. and most particularly to the trade of Ireland; and he maintained, that if the object of his motion was carried into effect, the defalcationing seconded, which it would occasion in the revenue would not be more than 13,000l. a year, a sum which the fertility of the mind of the Chancellor of the Exchequer would too easily supply to make this an objection to the motion. He Mr. CORRY took a very comprehensive view was now only asking, that British salt should of the subject; he explained the regulation of not be made to pay more on its being imported the statute of Queen Ann, and the distinction into Ireland, than Spanish salt paid; that we between the bushel under that statute, which should, in this respect, be put on a footing contained only the weight of 6 pounds of with the most favoured nation. He main-salt, and that of the Winchester bushel, which tained that bay salt had been considered, ever contained 84 pounds weight, in the reign of The SPEAKER observed, that as this was a matter relating to trade, it was necessary that it should be referred to a committee of the whole House, before any further proceeding could be had on the motion. The motion be It was then moved, that the said motion be referred to a committee of the whole House. cause, as he had said already, the article of provision required it. Now it might be said, that to lower the price of other salt, would not be injurious to the manufactures of Ireland in general; that was a sentence which sounded well, but it was not too lightly to be assumed; inconveniencies might follow this, although they were not obvious to every one. This might be an inducement to manufacturers to use the cheapest articles in curing their provisions, and in other manufactures, and which would not so well answer the purpose; the provisions would neither so well supply his Majesty's fleets and armies as they King Charles the Second; and gave an histo- | but that was not all; there were no salt rical account of the duties upon this article springs in Ireland, nor had they there the until they were made perpetual, and observed, means of manufacturing salt. They were inthat there had been no innovation in Ireland debted to this country for two very material upon this subject, but it was imposed there as articles, rock salt and coals; and, even if they it was in England. He explained the whole could manufacture the article, there was much custom in the way of importing this article; consideration due to the expense which would and observed, that in Ireland all bay salt was attend it in Ireland under its disadvantages for entered as white salt; and it was the same in freight, commission, and a great many charges this country, it paid nevertheless duty only on the carriage of coals and other articles on 84 pounds weight to the bushel. He ex- which must be brought from this country beplained the difference in the disposal of this fore they could manufacture rock salt; so article between the customs and the excise, that any measure tending (and this measure and then proceeded to observe, that the Hon. evidently and avowedly tended) to diminish Gent. had stated, that the export of salt from the importation of bay or foreign salt would Liverpool to Ireland had of late diminished, certainly be injurious to the trade of Ireland. and he seemed to wish to diminish the import- There had been no complaints between the ation of foreign salt into Ireland, for the pur- British and the Irish manufacturers upon this pose of increasing the importation of British subject; the trade had been carried on withsalt there; that seemed to be the object of the out any difficulty in this respect, and such Hon. Gent. by the motion now before the had been the policy of Ireland, that they had House: it was to discourage the importation always used much foreign salt-they had alof foreign salt, for the purpose of encou-ways been obliged to prefer foreign salt, beraging that of British manufacture, for the demand for the one must increase in proportion to the diminution of the other.. Now, upon this subject he must be permitted to observe, that bay salt was not only of a remarkably strong quality, but it was such as was indispensable to the provision trade of Ireland; and therefore, as long as the provision trade of Ireland remained as at this time, the mode now proposed by the Hon. Gent. would not answer the purpose for which he intended it: his object was to increase trade; but the mode proposed would diminish it, because it would diminish the importation of bay salt, and that article was actually neces-formerly did-a very important consideration sary in many manufactures, and in the pro- at all times, and particularly at the present vision trade it was actually indispensable. time, when we ought to take care not to expose Bay salt was very different in quality from ourselves to any danger in this respect in partiother salt; it was of a grain much larger, and cular; nor would the character of the article of a quality much stronger, and less easily of provision be long preserved in the foreign dissolved than any other salt: it was there-market-another very important consideration fore peculiarly fit for packing in the provision at any time, and still more so at this time, trade, and excellently adapted for provisions for his Majesty's navy and army: it was su perior to any other salt for curing provisions destined to hot climates, and had therefore been employed in the service of this country in every part of the world. It was well known that Ireland depended much-on its provision trade, and this was owing in some degree to the quality of the flesh of that country, but still more to the quality of the bay salt they used in curing it; and if that salt was not used, the quality of the cured provisions would be greatly deteriorated, which must soon produce a decay of trade, by which Ireland would lose her pre-eminence in this particular, as well as in some other articles of manufacture, for it would lose its character in the foreign market; but he apprehended he had stated enough, when he said that the provision trade of Ireland was essential to the support of his Majesty's fleets and armies: | There when Ireland was successfully endeavouring ended, and consequently less provision made up in Ireland, and of course less salt imported. Pork in particular, the salt for curing which came from Liverpool, had been much less demanded for the last three years than in former times; and so indeed had all demands of late for the provisions of Ireland into hot climates. As to the rock talt imported into Ireland, it had been nearly the same for some years. British white salt had diminished considerably, and salt in the last year had diminished nearly one third; foreign salt had also diminished in much the same proportion; so that the Hon. Gent.'s apprehension was not well founded, that the importation of foreign salt into Ireland was the cause of the diminution of that of the British. The diminution had been in not making up the same quantity of provisions for which the British salt was wanted. But if the Hon. Gent. would take the average of six years, he would have the consolation to find the importation of salt into Ireland from Liverpool was much increased. Here Mr. Corry went over the different importations for this period, to justify his assertion, and maintained there had been no increase of foreign importation, so as to stop the demand for the British salt; the general demand for the provision trade had fallen off for the present only, but no doubt would again revive. When all these things were considered, Mr. Corry said, the apprehensions of the Hon. Gent. respecting the trade between these two parts of the United Kingdom would cease. When the provision trade of Ireland should open again (as it soon might), all these apprehensions would be dispelled, and then there would be an end to the disadvantage which Ireland at present laboured under by the enormous rate of exchange which was against it, and which would cease or diminish rapidly when funds were duly provided for the payment of its debt. Upon a full consideration of all these things, he was confident that the opulent and respectable people of Liverpool would be much too liberal to complain of the present state of exportation of salt from thence to Ireland, or to desire their representative to persist in the motion now before the House, for that there would be no occasion to come for an act of Parliament upon the subject. Here Mr. Corry explained the schedule which was now before the House on the subject of duties on salt imported into Ireland, and then proceeded to observe, that the trade in this article had been uniformly carried on for a long time, without any complaint on the part of the manufacturers of this country, or of Ireland. He observed, that he had some regulations in contemplation upon this subject, and in which he had no doubt the Hon. Gent. would be able to give him some valuable assistance; but he submitted, whether it would not be more wise or prudent, that no measure should be brought forward at present, but that matters should stand as they are, and that they should be made matter of considera tion next year, and then, Mr. Corry said, be should come to the discussion of this important subject, with the Hon. Gent. or any other Hon. Member who should choose to take up the matter. Nothing could give him greater satisfaction than a renewed discussion of duties in Ireland, upon this or any other topic on which he possessed any information, respecting that part of the United Kingdom for which he had the honour to act. With respect to smuggling salt into Ireland, of which the Hon. Member seemed to be so apprehensive, he assured him there was no probability of it whatever, because the attempt offered no profit; there was much more probability of that article being smuggled from Ireland into this country, and that was in reality the case. Upon this subject, as well as others, he should be happy to communicate his ideas to the Hon. Gent. and to consult with him: it was certainly a desirable thing to prevent smuggling of salt from Ireland into this country, a practice much too prevalent. After making an apology to the House for detaining it so long on this subject, he submitted the propriety of not acting hastily on it; for which reason, and without the slightest disrespect to the Hon. Gent. he should now move the order of the day. Colonel BAGWELL said, that nothing af fected the people of Ireland so much as the duty on salt; and he understood, that the effect of the Rt. Hon. Gent.'s (Mr. Corry) statement, went to add 10,000l. to the duty. Mr. CORRY observed, in explanation, that his object was to reduce the bushel, and, at the same time, to reduce the duty. Mr. LEE said, that his Rt. Hon. Friend had given up his schedule of Irish duties for this session, in compliance with the wishes of several Gentlemen from Ireland; and he therefore thought it would be very unfair to take detached parts of it at present for the purpose of arguing upon, instead of postponing the consideration of the whole to the ensuing session. Mr. WICKHAM said, that his Rt. Hon. Friend (Mr. Corry) had had no intention of proposing an additional duty on salt. He was convinced, that no man would wish to give a preference to foreign salt: the only question was, what was the best means of answering the proposed end? He hoped the Hon. Gent. would not press the measure at present, as he had not made up his mind upon the subject, and must be under the necessity of opposing such a bill at present in every stage of it. General GASCOIGNE obtained leave from the House to withdraw his motion. HOUSE OF LORDS. Wednesday, Mar. 30.-(See Minutes, p. 511.) [CLERGY NON-RESIDENCE.]-On the question for the second reading of the clergy residence bill being put, Lord AUCKLAND rose, and shortly put it to the consideration of the Rt. Rev. Prelate near him, whether, for he sake of shortening the term of the leading provision of the bill, from two or three months to one, it would, under all the present circumstances, be expedient to risk the fate of the bill, as such an amendment in a bill of this peculiar description would, with a reference to the constitutional privileges of the other House, in all probability be fatal to it. The BISHOP of ST. ASAPH rose, and entered into the merits of the subject at some length; he argued that the bill in question, as connected with the general subject which gave rise to it, was one of considerable importance, and as it then presented itself, objectionable in a great degree. The Rev. Prelate detailed the leading provisions, and the effects of the statute of Hen. VIII. from which the clergy, vnder the present circumstances, he said, were liable to considerable hardships, and these hardships not unfrequently fell on the most conscientious of the clergy: those in a great degree arose from the state of the parsonagehouses in different parishes, many of which were not in a habitable condition. To remedy these, he observed bills were from time to time sent up to their Lordships from the other House of Parliament, and, in some instances he described, at a period of the session when the merits of the question could not be fully discussed. His Lordship enumerated the dates of these bills, and gave a history of their progress through both Houses. He expressed his disapprobation of this mode of proceeding. The statute of Hen. VIII. was one which required much amendment; but he was adverse to its operations being counteracted by perennial bills of suspension. He again lamented that it should so arise that the general subject could not have been adequately discussed; it came before them at periods of the session when the attendance was generally thin; and surely that in question was one of the highest importance. If the residence of the clergy was connected with the practical religion of the country; if the practical religion of the country was connected with its morals; and if the morals of the people were worthy the attention of the Legislature, then, unquestionably, the subject in question was one of the highest importance.-(A cry of Hear! bear!) The subject was one of the most serious nature, and which should be deliberately discussed. His Lordship alluded to the bill in the contemplation of a very learned civilian, a Member of the other House, who had consulted the Rev. Bench on the occasion: this proceeding, he observed, was against his sense: he advised him to bring in the bill on his own ideas, and to trust to parliamentary discussion for the rest. The Rev. Prelates, he observed, were, at least, not all equally well versed in the Statute Book. He thought the statute of Hen. VIII. should be fairly amended; but he had no hesitation in deciding, were he driven to the alternative of either totally abrogating the statute in question, or of suffering it to stand totally unaltered, in favour of the latter. Much had been said about the necessity of such bills originating in the other House. He saw no reason why a bill to the effect to which he had alluded, should not be introduced in that House; and he thought it should be ge nerally known, that the Rev Prelates were not in favour of the system of going on with such bills as the present from year to year. The LORD CHANCELLOR also took a view of the subject at some length. He observed, that with a reference to the question regularly before the House, he saw no reason why the bill should not be suffered to go to a committee. He seemed to argue generally in favour of the bill, as, under the existing circumstances of the case, a measure of a desirable nature. He had, in his judicial capacity, while presiding in one of the courts below, opportunities of observing, in many cases, the hardship and unequal operation of some of the provisions of the act of Hen. VIII. His Lordship cited in particular two cases, the one in the Rector of Bow church, one of the most exemplary men in all the various branches of his duty in the clerical profession, against whom, in consequence of his living in Ely Place, Hol born, on account of its being, from peculier circumstances, impracticable to live in the parsonage-house, he was obliged to direct a jury to find. Another case presented itself, the particulars of which he cited, of a very opposite description, and in which the penal operations of the bill in question were very properly applied. He adverted to these points, to evince not only the great importance, but also the difficulty of coming to a right decision upon the general subject. It was matter of sericus and deliberate considera tion. His Lordship alluded to the great dif ficulty which men placed in offices of im portant, severe, and complicated duties experienced, in maturing great public measures. He adverted particularly to the situ ation of the Learned Judge alluded to by the Rev. Prelate, who, had leisure and health per mitted him to pursue his labours relative to the subject in question, their Lordships would not at this time have any part of it to discuss: the indisposition under which that person then laboured, was in a great degree owing to the very close and unremitted attention which he paid to the subject in question; it was one of more extensive concern than perhaps the House were generally aware of; it involved not only considerations of justice and policy, but even of humanity. With respect to this point, his Lordship, with a creditable degree of warmth and feeling, alluded to the effect which a general enforcement of residence would have on. the fate of the unfortunate and indigent curates; it would go in a great degree to deprive them of the scanty pittance they at present hold. Even from what had already taken place, many curates were turned out of employment; this he had some opportunity of learning in the exercise of his clerical patronage as Chancellor, and of which he stated some distressing instances. With respect to a comprehensive bill, containing adequate provisions for all that was complained of, he seemed to say the session was too far advanced for bringing such a measure to maturity within its period; and he remarked upon the superior wisdom of deliberate and mature decision, in opposition to hasty and premature conclusions; and he also noticed the peculiar calls which the Rev. Bench had generally towards the end of a session in their respective dio ceses. The BISHOP of ST. ASAPH spoke shortly in explanation, and disclaimed any intention of throwing the least imputation on the very Learned Gentleman alluded to, for whom, on the contrary, he had the highest respect. The EARL of CARLISLE made a few observations, in the course of which he seemed to argue against the principle of bills of suspension, and adverted to the strong claims which curates had to the consideration and humanity of the Legislature. The bill was then read a second time, and committed for next day. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Wednesday, March 30. (See Minutes, p. 511.) [GRENADA LOAN.]-The order of the day was read for the House to resolve itself into a committee of the whole House on the Grenada loan bill. Sir ROBERT BUXTON said he could not but express the sentiments he had done on a former occasion, with respect to the bill now brought into Parliament, and he should give his decided disapprobation to that measure, which went to misapply the public money. Many inconveniencies and losses would still arise to Government if they continued their support to that part of the West India trade. Mr. HOBHOUSE said he could not agree with the last Hon. Gent.; he was certain that no loss had been sustained by Government: the plain facts were, that 1,400,000l. had been advanced for the support of this trade, and that this sum had been reduced to 500,000l.; that being the case, every Member in the House must see, that notwithstanding war and other unpleasant circumstances, which had prevented the progress of trade in the West Indies, yet that mercantile establishment was in a fair way of being a benefit to Government. The West India islands produced upwards of 30,000 hogsheads of sugar and other valuable articles; therefore Government had the best security for the money they advanced. The whole of the West India debt had not been contracted more than six years, and with the there was no doubt of the prosperity that would attend this West Indian mercantile establishment. Under these circumstances he should give his approbation to the measure. Lord AUCKLAND also made some observations, chiefly in reference to the general sub-assistance now about to be given by the House, ject, respecting which he appeared of his Noble and Learned Friend's opinion, that the present session would not afford sufficient time for the full and adequate discussion of the measure, so generally allowed to be necessary. He proceeded to describe some general regulations which could, in such a measure, be introduced with good effect; and concluded by observing, that a full attendance of the Rev. Bench would be peculiarly necessary on such an occasion. Mr. JOHNSTONE said he could not agree with the last Hon. Gent.; he knew perfectly well the great difference between the monied interest and landed interest of the country. It was no uncommon thing for persons connected with trade, to come into that House on all occasions and support Government, and thereThe LORD CHANCELLOR, in allusion to the fore the mercantile part of the country would point last adverted to by the Noble Lord, see their interest to support the present quessaid, that the Rev. Prelates had pleas for ab- tion. The Hon. Gent had made a mistake as senting themselves towards the close of a ses- to the time the Grenada debt was contracted; sion, which perhaps temporal Peers, generally it was now upwards of eight years instead of speaking, had not, namely, the exercise of six. He would now call to the recollection of their pastoral duties; and he lamented the the House the promise that was made to Par thin attendance which took place of the tem-liament on the former application for money, poral Peers towards the close of a session, a period when, from unavoidable circumstances, a great proportion of legislative business was transacted. that it should then be the last they would ack of the House to grant: but he was sorry to say the Gentlemen had not kept their word, and the indulgence then granted for the sup |