Mr. KINNAIRD said, he was perfectly satis- | first consequence, but they had not been fied with the explanation.

The resolution was then agreed to.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Tuesday, March 22. (See Minut. p. 508.) [MILITIA OFFICERS' BILL.]-On the motion of the SECRETARY at WAR, the House resolved itself into a committee of the whole House on the militia officers' bill. He observed, that he had made a few alterations in the words of a clause or two, which were merely technical.

treated with kindness; and there was a time when men of the first consequence felt an ambition to enter into the militia; but the treatment they had experienced had chilled the desire of many gentlemen for the support of its dignity and consequence, and therefore there was no wonder that Government found a difficulty in filling the vacancies in the militia; as, during the last Parliament, a bill went through the House, that went at once to rob them of every dignity and comfort-and if that act was renewed, the House would again witness the great support of the country lessened and degraded. But he hoped Parliament would be cautious how they treated this valuable bulwark of the nation, on whom we should depend for the protection of those blessings we now enjoy. "Use," said he,

Mr. BASTARD said, notwithstanding much had been observed to the House with respect to the clause which gave the Lord Lieutenant" your militia with kindness, and you will find the power to accept the services of non-quali- they will stand before an enemy with zeal to fied men, he could not but express his disap-defend the country." probation of the clause, as it would prevent men of landed property from giving their services to the militia. He was sure if persons were indiscriminately suffered to enter in the militia, as the clause in question would allow, men of property would not enter.

The SECRETARY at WAR said, the propriety of the clause must be obvious to every one, as the Lord Lieutenant must have the power to fill up the vacancies with unqualified persons, if men of landed property did not offer themselves.

The Hon. HENRY LASCELLES said, that as the clause now stood, the Lord Lieutenant had the power of choosing whom he pleased: he wished that men of landed property should have the preference.

The SECRETARY at WAR said, he thought it proper to vest the exercise of that authority in the Lord Lieutenant, as a man might be a proper person for the militia in consequence of his property, but a very improper person from various other circumstances.

Colonel MITFORD contended for the importance of the militia; he observed he did not mean to say any thing unhandsome of those gentlemen in the regular service, but he thought the militia ought to consist of men of landed property; and as many gentlemen in the regular service were often not very wealthy, the two descriptions of characters ought not to associate with each other, in the sense he meant it, as public men.

Lord FOLKSTONE Concurred with the objections which had been made to the clause in question..

Mr. BASTARD said, there was a period when the militia of this country was a body of the

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, in answer to the observations of the Hon. Gent. who spoke last, that his Rt. Hon. Friend, who had brought in this bill, was a true friend to the militia system, but that the observations of the Hon. Gent. who had just spoken (Mr. Bastard) did not apply to the principle of the bill now under consideration, though the Hon. Gent. undoubtedly meant that they should. He denied that the militia were insulted by the acts of the last Parliament, neither were they degraded; some of the measures of Parliament were indeed such as might have been wished to have been otherwise; but the committee, as well as the Hon. Gent. who spoke last, would have the goodness to remember, that the measures to which he referred were not measures of choice, but of necessity, and the Hon. Gent. as well as others, acted under it from necessity; and he would be as ready as any one to obey that necessity if it existed now; but would the Hon. Gent. state, that we were in the same situation as we were then? Certainly we were not. That situation arose from a consciousness that the other forces of his Majesty were employed in every part of the world; and could we forget what was due to the militia for their services, in consequence of his Majesty's forces being so employed? What were the instru ments by which we supported our glory? The militia. How was Ireland defended? By the militia. How were our victories obtained on the coast of Egypt? By the very measure which the last Hon. Gent. condemned; by the laws which were made in the last Parliament for the regulation of the militia, and by the excellent conduct of that constitutional body of forcewe could not have had those triumphs but in consequence of the measures taken by Parlia ment with regard to the militia. He had already said, however, that these measures of the last Parliament were the effect of necessity.

2

God grant that the necessity of recurring to such measures might never be felt again! These observations he thought he was called upon to make, in consequence of what had just fallen from the Hon. Gent. or he should not have made them, for he had no intention, when he came to the House, of taking any share in the discussion of this bill. But now that he was up, he could not help making a few, and they should be a few, observations. It had been stated, that the clause now proposed was a direct infringement on the militia laws. That it was an invasion on the original system, or a novelty in it rather, he did not deny; but he submitted, that it had been rendered unavoidable by the change which had taken place in the militia since the institution of that constitutional force. He knew that the militia was supported at its commencement with the ardour of the landed interest of this country. He knew also, and he had much pleasure in reflecting, that that ardour continued to a great extent; but it should not be forgotten there were other claims upon the patriotic exertions of gentlemen of the landed

gentlemen of landed property would not associate with unqualified persons, notwithstanding the exigency of the moment, to complete the militia of the country; he therefore could not, with any satisfaction to himself, agree to the clause.

Colonel MITFORD also repeated his former observations on the clause.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said a few words in answer to the last Hon. Gent.

Several other Members expressed various opinions on the clause in debate, which was at length carried, leaving out the words which were imperative on the Lord Lieutenant to fill up the vacancies in the manner prescribed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Wednesday, March 23. (See Minutes, p. 509.) ROLLS said, the object of the motion of which [ROMAN CATHOLICS.]--The MASTER of the he had given notice, and which he now rose to

make, was merely to remedy an inconvenience which resulted to the Roman Catholics from the provisions of two acts of Parliament. The inconvenience was simply this: that the Roman Catholics were obliged to take two sepa rate oaths, whereas one would be completely suficient. There had been, during his Ma

interest; that there were demands on their public spirit, and some novelties which operated upon their patriotism, and called forth their efforts in support of their country. All these things considered, it would be obvious there was not now the same fac lity as formerly in procuring officers for the militia. It was otherwise at the establishment. The difference of circumstances had introduced some novel-jesty's reign, two acts of Parliament passed in ties into the system. What was here proposed was not to outstep the ancient system, but to provide that the change of circumstances should not produce great inconveniences to that part of the service. The great object was, as the Hon. Gent. and many others had stated, to provide, as much as possible, the militia with officers from the great landed property and gentry of the kingdom; but if that could not be done, if they could not every where be found ready to take upon themselves that service, then that others, who, although not as well qualified in fortune, might be qualified in ability, should take that service. This measure was not intended to exclude the gentry from being officers of the militia; on the contrary, it was much desired that they should come forward in that service, but to provide for the service in case of their absence; for if we could not have officers qualified in fortune, in the way which was most desirable, we must take care that the militia service should not be left without officers. It was upon that principle he approved of the clause now before the committee, and it was upon that principle his Rt. Hon. Friend proposed it.

An

favour of the Roman Catholics. The first was the 18th of the King, brought in by Sir George Saville; the other, the 31st of the King, brought in by the present Chancellor of Ireland. The object of the former was to relieve the Roman Catholics from the penalties and incapacities imposed by the 11th and 12th of William III. The second bill was to remove the penalties, &c, imposed since the 11th and 12th of William III. Neither of those acts entirely repealed the laws to which they referred-they were entirely conditional in their operation; they extended only to such Roman Catholics as gave assurance of their fidelity, and disclaimed such principles as were inconsistent with the safety of the state. oath, containing such disclaimer, was introduced into each of the acts. If the oath in the second act had been precisely the same as that contained in the former one, the inconve niences which he now proposed to remedy would never have arisen; for, by taking the second oath, the person would have complied with the provisions of both the statutes; but when the second act was brought in, it was thought necessary to make some alterations in the wording of the oath, in form, but not in substance. The fact, however, was, that a Lord FOLKSTONE observed, though several Roman Catholic, to entitle himself to the beHon. Gent, had said on a former occasion,nefit of both the statutes, was under the necesthat the present period was not calculated to be too nice as to the qualification of persons to fill the vacancies alluded to, yet he thought

sity of taking both the oaths. For, if he only took the oath prescribed in the second statute (which was more perfect than the one contain *Gga

ed in the first statute), he still remained liable importance of this constitutional body. The to all the penalties, &c. imposed by the 11th militia, for these few years past, had been and 12th of William III. Now it happened, carried to a great and improper extent, and that a great number of Catholics had only nothing but the exigence of the moment could taken the last oath, thinking that there was justify the alteration which had taken place in but one Catholic test, and that that was the the militia of the country, and which, in his one imposed by the last statute. They sup- mind, had reduced its importance. He thought posed that they were not under the necessity it would be of advantage to the country if the of taking the first oath, which in substance is regular army assimilated with the militia, and included in the second one. Instances had that those who came into the service, should occurred, where, when their titles to estates enlist for the term of six years. The Hon. came to be examined, they had been found Gent. then repeated many of the observations defective merely from the inadvertency of not on the army, he had made on a former occataking the first oath. There appeared to him sion. It was a doctrine laid down the other to be no conceivable reason why both the oaths day, that no opposition should be given to should be retained, because the state derived this bill, unless Gent. who opposed it, should no additional security from retaining the first suggest some plan that would answer the puroath. The second oath differed from the first, pose of the country better than what the prein an omission, the nature of which he should sent bill had offered; but he did not think this state. The first contained a renunciation of doctrine good, as a man may be able to disco, allegiance to the person assuming the title of ver defects in a picture without being an artist, Charles III. he being alive when that act or be able to judge of a poem, without being a passed; but it was omitted in the second act, poet; and therefore he thought the opposition because he was then dead. This was the only ommission in the second oath, which, with that any Gent. might be inclined to give to the bill, exception and some small additions, was the was not improper. The militia, as it was now same as the former one. Now, it was rather constituted, went a great way to destroy the singular, after a man had taken the more per-militia officers were now giving nine guineas regular army, for it was a known fact, that the fect oath, to call upon him to take one that was less perfect. A Catholic who had taken the last oath, could have no objection to take the former one, and therefore, if he did not take it, it could only arise from ignorance or inadvertence. It was therefore perfectly useless and inconvenient to retain it; besides, it led to a degree of incongruity in the law, which ought not to exist. Upon these grounds he should inove for leave to bring in a bill to extend to Roman Catholics the benefit of both statutes, upon their taking the oath contained in the

first.

This being a motion respecting religion, it was referred to a committee of the whole House.

per man, consequently they could not suppose that men would enter into the regular service, He said, he would acknowledge with candour, that he had conversed with many military men, some of whom were advocates for the augmentation of the militia; others, indeed, did not support the principle. He could not but again object to the militia as it was now established; for every Gent. in the House must own, it was not like the militia that was originally constituted. It has long appeared like the regular service, without its perfections. The Hon. Gent. then said, there ought to be no distinction between the gentlemen qualified for the militia, and those unqualified officers whose character and talents should be approved of by the Lord Lieutenant. The army abounds with gentlemen of the

want of property should not render their situation and duty unpleasant to them; but, at the same time, every care ought to be taken to prevent improper persons from being admitted to join the militia.

[MILITIA OFFICERS' BILL.]-Mr. WIND-highest honour and talents, and therefore the HAM said, he had taken a very comprehensive view of the measure now about to be adopted by the bill before the House; upon the whole he did not mean to object to it, yet he thought it necessary to state how far he approved of the bill, and the clause relative to the admis. sion of half-pay officers into the militia. It was nothing but the exigence of the moment warranted the present measure: he therefore should make a few remarks on the militia, as to its first constitution and present establish- | ment. As the militia was first constituted, it was the armed force of the country, and contained those regulations which must be approved of by every man who took the trouble to compare it with the established militia of the present day. Within these few years it had been torn to pieces by many new laws, and its members embodied into the regular service. Such measures had done much to destroy the

The SECRETARY at WAR said, he did not think it necessary to follow the Hon. Gent. through all his remarks, but he must repeat the observation he had before made on the clause alluded to by the Hon. Gent. If this was a moment of exigency, a strong and well-constituted militia was necessary, as the Hon. Gent. had allowed. He was sure the clause in question would not be considered as improper: as the vacancies might not be filled with qualified men in time, therefore it was necessary the Lord Lieutenant should have a power, which this clause grants to him, to complete the numbers as early as possible. The alteration

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he thought it would be better to postpone any further steps, till the House was better prepared to discuss the merits of the question.

which the Hon. Gent. wished in the militia | fore the House. He then read it, but it was law, so as to enable the militia to enlist men considered as not sufficiently close to govern for the term of six years, could not be carried the question. into execution on account of colonial service. There was a material difference between the arrangements of our military force, and that on the continent; therefore the principle the Hon. Gent. had suggested could not be carried into effect. He said it was his intention to move a proviso to the clause, that if the Lord Lieutenant could not fill the vacancies with qualified men within two months, halfpay officers should not be advanced to a higher rank in the militia than a captain; this, he said, would satisfy the Gentlemen who had opposed the clause in question.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Friday, Mar. 25.—(See Minutes, p. 509.) [JAMES TROTTER.]-Lord EUSTON presented a petition from James Trotter, who had surrendered himself a few days ago, on a charge of not having attended as a witness on the Dunfermline committee, he having been summoned for that purpose. The petition expressed his contrition for the offence he had committed, and prayed the indulgence of the House.-Lord Euston then moved, "That he "be brought to the bar of the House on Mon"day, and discharged.”—On the question being put,

Mr. TIERNEY rose, and said it was the duty of the House to punish the offence this man stood charged with: it had been stated that this person had wilfully secreted himself, in order to perplex the business of the committee, and injure the Member, for whom his evidence would have been of considerable service. He could not help expressing his utmost detestation of this offence, which he considered of the very worst kind, and, if possible, exceeded in wickedness the crime of perjury, as his evidence might be very material to the support of the case; therefore there was no calculating how far a Member might be injured by this vile offence. On these grounds, he should move that James Trotter be committed to Newgate for six months.

The SPEAKER said, it was necessary that the Hon. Gent. should only negative that part of the motion which expresses the discharge❘ of James Trotter, and that when he was brought up on Monday, the Hon. Gent. might then make his motion.

Lord HAWKESBURY said, he thought some reason ought to be stated before the Hon. Gent. (Mr. Tierney) could bring forward this motion.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, it was his wish that the House would agree to postpone the discussion of this question to a future period, in order to guard against inroads on the privileges of the House.

Mr. BRAGGE thought it would be better to withdraw the motion; then time would be given to consider the case.

Mr. TIERNEY read a case, which, he said, he thought went to support his motion.

Mr. SHERIDAN said, he could not but ex

press his surprise that the Hon. Gent. (Mr. Tierney) should have said that Trotter, the prisoner, had been convicted of his offence. This, he observed, could not be the case; the man had not been heard in his defence, and therefore could not be convicted. And now he must be permitted to say, the prisoner could only be heard in palliation of his offence, and not in justification, as he had acknowledged his crime.

The question was then put, that James Trotter should be brought to the bar on Monday next. (The words, " and discharged,” were left out.-Ordered.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Monday, Mar. 28.-(See Minutes, p. 510.)

[IRISH CHALKING BILL.]-Lord ELLENBOROUGH called to the recollection of the House generally, what had transpired relative to the Irish chalking bill, the further consideration of which was, by their Lordships' order, deferred till after the ensuing recess. He then held a bill in his hand, which he was about to submit to the consideration of the House: this (so we understood his Lordship) would tend, in a great degree, to render the measure he alluded to unnecessary. It would go, to a certain extent, to assimilate and render uniform some very important parts of the criminal code of the United Kingdom; and also to introduce some amendments to certain parts of the existing criminal laws, which The SPEAKER mentioned a case, which he were universally allowed to be greatly wantthought had a near application to the one being. The Noble and Learned Lord took up

Mr. STRANGE said, he thought that a severe punishment should not be inflicted on any person from the bare report of an unsuccessful Member.

cessity of that which he had occasion at first to allude to. He would propose, in the first instance, that the bill should be now read a first time; after which it would lie over for further consideration. Having moved accordingly,

that part of his subject first which was more particularly connected with the measure, the discussions on which seemed to give rise to the present bill, namely, the Irish chalking act. The apparent inaccuracies in that bill were done away in the relevant parts of the bill he was about to propose; the spirit of its provisions was consolidated, and given in a Lord AUCKLAND observed, that the House more correct and technical form. He then and the country were undoubtedly under an adverted to the provisions of the Coventry high obligation to the Noble and Learned Lord, act, to render which effectual, it was ne- for coming forward so laudably as he had cessary that a "lying in wait" should be done. There was no person in the kingdom proved; and he also noticed the existing legal fitter, perhaps not one so fit, for the task he distinctions in this country between assaults had undertaken; and he doubted not but the with intent to rob, and those made with in- bill would prove a considerable emendation of tent to murder, the latter of which, it ap- the criminal law of the United Kingdom. peared at present, amounted only to a misde- Whilst he was on his legs, he wished to make meanour there were provisions in the bill to one further observation: with respect to what amend those parts of the existing law, and to he had said when a part of the present subject render both offences a felony. With a re- was under discussion, he was misunderstood, ference to the provisions of the Coventry act, when he was conceived to say, that the cri&c. the bill went generally to enact_maiming, minal laws of Great Britain and Ireland, gewounding, disfiguring, &c. any of his Manerally speaking, should be assimilated. He jesty's subjects in any part of the body, a certainly could mean no such thing; as it was capital felony. The bill which he now pro- well known, not only to himself, but to seposed took into its purview other parts of the veral Peers present, that there existed such a criminal code, where amendment was held to difference between the habits, manners, &c. be highly necessary. His Lordship proceeded of certain classes of the inhabitants of both to state the leading provisions; particularly countries, as to render different legislative rethat which renders the administering any me- gulations indispensably necessary. He apdicine, drug, &c. to procure the abortion of proved of the course suggested to be taken by a child, a capital offence. The bill went also the Noble and Learned Lord respecting the to provide some amendments in the existing bill he had brought in, and also with regard laws, as relative to child-murder. In effect- to its effects with respect to the other bill aling these, it was necessary, in some degree,luded to. to repeal the statute of James I. a satisfactory application of which had in many instances been found difficult by the Judges. In this we could collect, ordered to be printed. view of the act referred to, his Lordship seemed particularly to allude to that part of the statute, which makes the fact of hiding the body evidence against the mother; but this act, in the proposed bill, was afterwards in spirit re-enacted, but with the qualifying provision, that there should be probable evidence of the child's being born alive. The bill contained provisions for amending, to a certain extent, the laws relative to the heinous offence of arson, which his Lordship generally Jaid down; and, on this part of his subject, finally observed, that, as the law stood, to burn one's house with intent to defraud the underwriters, was only a misdemeanour, but which, we understood the Learned Lord, was, by the present bill, proposed to be made a capital offence. There were other legislative provisions enacted in the bill, under the general principle he had stated in the outset of his address, tending to render certain parts of the criminal code of both parts of the United Kingdom regular and uniform, and amending particular parts of the existing criminal law; such as extending the operations of the black act to Ireland, &c. His Lordship concluded by observing, that the bill he now submitted would, in a great degree, supersede the ne

The bill was then read a first time, and, as

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Monday, Mar. 28.-(See Minutes, p. 510.)

[JAMES TROTTER.]-On the motion of Lord EUSTON, the order of the day was read for bringing James Trotter to the bar of the House, who had wilfully absented himself from the committee appointed to try the me rits of the Dunfermline election.

The SPEAKER said, before he put the ques tion, he thought it his duty to inform the House, that the prisoner was to be brought to the bar of the House by the Serjeant at Ärms, who is to stand there with the mace, and that no Gent. could put any question to the prisoner, but through the medium of the Chair. It was therefore necessary for those Gent. who had any intention to question the prisoner, to furnish him with the ques tions they wished to be put to him, as he did not mean to put any question to him on his own account, having no authority to do so.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the Hon. Gent. (Mr. Tierney) should statė