tions, however strongly made, did not amount to proof, and that the feelings and opinions of a whole country, or the public, were not to be collected from the sentiments of a few individuals. His Majesty's Ministers held opinions on that point very different from those held by the Noble Earl. He denied that they had forfeited or lost the confidence of the country. As one of those Ministers, he could say, that he had never courted the possession of the

ferred from the tenour of the two Royal communications to Parliament. Thus circumstanced, and when it was considered that the guidance of the affairs of the country was left in the hands of the present Ministers, its situation could be truly said to be no other than perilous. The public, he asserted, did not look up with confidence to the talents and abilities of the present Ministers; the national spirit or the public energy could not be called forth or efficaciously exerted under their aus-office he had then the honour to hold. It had pices. Were men of eminent talents and real abilities as statesmen, called to the guidance of affairs, the situation of the country would be diametrically opposite to that in which it was placed at present: from a state of dismay and despondence, it would pass to one of hope and exultation; public confidence and energy would revive, and we may bid defiance to all the efforts of France, and laugh her menaces to scorn. We may then say, in the concise but comprehensive language of the poet, "Come take!" which he feared we could not do at present. These were his feelings when he used, perhaps hastily, the expression that the country was in a perilous state: under its present rulers he feared it was; but under the guidance of those great characters he had in contemplation, its state would be full of well-founded hope and justly confident expectation.

Lord PELHAM rose to answer some observations which fell from the Noble Earl, the greater part of which, however, were obviously irrelevant to the subject before the com- | mittee. With respect to the affairs of the illustrious personage who was the object of the bill, the Noble Earl seemed to be under some misconception, and in obviating which, the Noble Secretary was necessarily led into some detailed exposition of the affair, from the time when the first arrangements were made in 1795 to the present moment; which train of circumstances being already known to our readers, we deem it unnecessary to repeat them. By the operation of the bill of 1795, the debts of his R. H. would not, his Lordship observed, be liquidated before the end of four years, instead of the expiration of a year and a half, as misconceived by the Noble Earl. Much stress seemed to be laid on what fell from Noble Lords supposed to be in habits of communication with his R. H.; but he could state, that, as far as his own observation went, the Prince himself seemed to be very well satisfied with what was proposed by his Majesty's Ministers. The operation of the present bill was to restore to his R. H. the full possession of that income, which, after much deliberation and discussion, was deemed in the year 1795 to be sufficient for maintaining the dignity and splendour of the Heir Apparent. With respect to the other considerations to which the Noble Earl's observations were directed, he would only say, that asser

been his lot to be placed in situations of great public trust and importance, in which situations, as well as in his present, he always exerted his honest endeavours to perform his duty to his Sovereign and to his country in a proper, fair, and unexceptionable manner. That he had filled offices of importance, in situations of extreme peril and danger, fully to the approbation of those by whom he was intrusted, he assumed no personal merit, for it was his duty so to act. The Noble Earl and the House should recollect, that at the time his Majesty's present Ministers were called to their offices, the country was in a state of unprecedented difficulty and peril; and the Noble Earl would do well to recollect the situation in which the country was left by those men of great abilities and eminent talents, when they had retired from their offices.

The Earl of CARLISLE, in explanation, observed, that what he had said relative to the subject regularly before the committee, he merely offered as an independent Member of Parliament, actuated by no other motives than those arising from a sense of his duty to the public and the country. He had had no communication with the illustrious personage on the occasion, who, the Noble Earl repeated, had been ill treated in the present instance, and was, in effect, left by Ministers in that degraded and comfortless situation from which they professed to extricate him. With respect to what had fallen from the Noble Secretary of State relative to the situation of affairs at a former period, he deemed it then unnecessary to expatiate. Though a great deal, he observed, might in ordinary cases proceed upon presumption, yet when the safety and existence of an empire was at stake, such grounds of action should be exploded. With respect to the character and conduct of a certain great and illustrious man, which not only by him, but by the nation in general, was regarded with feelings of gratitude and admiration, he would aver of that great man, he meant Mr. Pitt, that he was the political saviour of his country. This great man was, with others, accused and suspected by Mr. Buonaparté of being concerned in the affair of what he called the infernal machine, for taking away his life. Of this accusation, he believed every honest man would acquit him; but there was another machine, he could not say an infernal, but a very mischievous one, which (so we under

stood his Lordship) possibly he had some con- |ing, ordered the Report to be received the cern in, namely, the formation of the present next day. ministry, whose conduct had abundantly compensated Buonaparté for whatever injury he might have sustained from the machinations he at first alluded to.

and just, and it was found from experience that the methods tried had been in some measure defective, which has given cause to the present bill, which bill will extend the power of the Lord Lieutenant to give a better bounty to persons who may be inclined to fight for the protection of their liberty and laws. The Learncd Gent. had observed, that he was an advocate for raising the militia by ballot, and that he thought a bounty of four guineas would be hurtful to the recruiting service; but he would beg the Hon. Gent. to consider, that if the militia was raised by ballot, substitutes would be consequently got at a heavy price; by that means, men would sooner wait for offers of this kind than enter into the regular service. He was convinced that the present measure was calculated to benefit the militia force of Ireland.

Mr. ELLIOT said he did not think it a measure calculated to augment the militia of Ireland: he thought if men were not raised by ballot, they could not be raised at all.

Sir L. PARSONS said there appeared two points for consideration; the one was, whether the method adopted by this bill was constitutional? and the other was, whether the way of getting men by a bounty would answer the purpose of the country better than by ballot? He thought with the Gent. who preceded him, that the present bill would answer every purpose the country could wish for, and give a much greater satisfaction to the persons who served in the militia. He could assure the committee, that choosing persons by ballot very often rendered the officers very unpleasant, as they had frequently to associate with men whom they would not have taken among them, if such a bill as the present had been in force.

Mr. FITZGERALD said that he approved of the present bill, and thought it was a much better method of raising men than by ballot, as it would do away that trouble and expense which attended an individual in getting a substitute.

General TARLETON expressed his high ap probation of the bill now under discussion, which would tend to facilitate the getting of men in Ireland. He well knew the state of the Irish militia, and was proud to say, he had the honour to command a regiment of militia in that country, who had given ample proof of their loyalty and affection to their King, and who were an honourable example of courage, and every requisite that can adorn the character of a soldier; and he hoped that the militia of every county in the empire would shew the same desire to protect it from the attacks of an enemy.

Mr. ELLIOT said he thought that four guineas was too great a sum to give for men, as it would add a very heavy expense to the country; with a less bounty the Lord Lieutenant might increase the militia to double the number mentioned in the bill. He could not but express his disapprobation of the measure, as he thought it would not tend to serve the country.

The SECRETARY at WAR said he could not help complaining that the Hon. Gent. had thought proper to enter into an examination of the militia laws of Ireland, upon an incidental expense of this kind, particularly at the present moment, when every exertion was necessary to complete the force of the empire. Whether particular parts of the militia law were good or bad, it was now the duty of every man to make the best of it; and it was rather singular that the Hon. Gent. who was one of the first to sound the trumpet of alarm, should now take an opportunity of disheartening the public mind with respect to the public force. It would certainly have been more proper for the Hon. Gent. when the other bill was brought forward in December last, to come forward and to have stated his general objections to the measure; but he then sat perfectly silent, and did not offer one single objection: but now, when it was necessary to amend that bill in some particulars, the Hon. Gent. came forward with general objections to the whole of the system. The Hon. Gent, must know that the militia of Ireland The ATTORNEY GENERAL OF IRELAND said had never been, nor could now be raised en- he could not but express his astonishment at tirely by ballot. Why, then, did he not bring the objections made by the Hon. Gent. (Mr. forward a bill to correct that evil? it had, Elliot) who sat with him in another Parliahowever, been suffered to go on to the pre- ment; and he must be permitted to call to the sent time, and it was therefore necessary to recollection of the Hon. Gent the time he permake the best of it. The object of the pre- fectly agreed to the very principle he now resent bill was only to enable the Lord Lieute- probates. A bill went through the Irish House nant to grant a greater bounty, if it should be of Commons, granting the sum of six pounds found necessary, and to continue a bill which to every man who would serve in the militia, would expire in a short time, to the end of and the Hon. Gent, never objected to the printhe year and if the bounty did not exceed ciple of that bill. The Gentleman well knew four guineas, it certainly would not materially his statement to be correct. He observed, that affect the recruiting service, if, indeed, it would | there were several instances to prove the bad at all interfere with it.

effect of a ballot; men got accoutred and

clothed, and then left their duty for the service of the rebel party.

Mr. LEIGH said that the sum of four guineas would induce men to enter into the militia service, which was a much better way of getting them than by ballot. Many ill consequences had attended a ballot, and much confusion might attend it again.

Colonel BAGWELL said that it appeared to him to be impossible to raise a militia by ballot; it had been proved an act of danger; the experiment had been tried, but without success: he said there were men who would rather enter into the recruiting service than the militia; and as the bounty was larger, the sum proposed in the present bill would not hurt the recruiting service.

The LORD CHANCELLOR was of opinion that the mode proposed by the Noble Earl, in point of form, for the introduction of his clause, was not the most regular. He thought it would be more proper to recommit the bill immediately, for the purpose of receiving the clause. The Noble and Learned Lord took the opportunity to express his sentiments with respect to the Noble Earl's intention of raising the amount of the sum for which debtors could be arrested, to 20%. It had in the first instance struck him that such an alteration could be well and safely made, but he had since considered the point with the most anxious regard, and the result of that consideration was, as the Noble Earl had stated, that such a regulation would not eventually tend to the ease or relief of the debtor, but would certainly operate oppressively with regard to the creditor, on whom indeed it would prove

The report was ordered to be received the a kind of hardship, and tend considerably to next day. lessen his security.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

The Earl of MOIRA explained; after which the bill was recommitted, and the clause in ques tion received and agreed to. The final alteration made in the bill was on the suggestion of the Noble Earl, and respected its title, which was to expunge therefrom the words, and for the relief of persons imprisoned on mesne process."

Wednesday, Mar. 16.-(See Minutes, p. 506.) [FRIVOLOUS ARRESTS.]-On the order for receiving the report of the bill for the better prevention of frivolous and vexatious arrests," &c.

The Earl of MOIRA observed, that he had an additional clause to propose, which was of that nature that could be introduced into the bill either in the present stage, or on the occasion of the recommitment of the bill, which he intended afterwards to propose for to-morrow. However, as he should probably be unable to attend in his place to-morrow, he should take the present opportunity of offering the clause. The Noble Earl described it to be of that nature which would go to render the measure more perfect and effectual in its altered state than it otherwise would be. The Noble Earl took the opportunity to state his intention of relinquishing, with respect to the present bill, the raising the amount of the sum for which arrests should take place, from 1cl. to 20l. Upon consideration and further inquiry, he thought it would be better to leave that part of the law in its original state, on grounds as much of practical and substantial humanity to the debtor, as of justice and security to the creditor. An inconceivable number of debts of an amount between these sums, were afloat, and there was a certain description of persons whom, instead of wishing to take out of the power of their creditors, he intended if possible to make still more liable than they were at present: he meant those persons who passed as gentlemen, and who contrived to get into the books of tradesmen to different amounts. The Noble Earl then moved the clause above mentioned.

VOL. III.

The House then resumed, and ordered the report to be received next day.

IRISH POST-OFFICE.]-The order being read for their Lordships going into a com mittee on the Irish postage rates bill,

Lord AUCKLAND rose, and urged the objections which he offered last night against a particular clause of the bill, in some detail, His Lordship seemed to object to it on the ground of irregularity, on a constitutional principle, and, but comparatively in a very slight degree, with a reference to the question of revenue. Among other officers in Ireland to whom the exemption was extended, was one whose office was no longer in existence: it also had the effect of recognising, as it operated with respect to this country, a fourth secretary of state, which possibly may render the vacation of a seat in the other House of Parliament requisite. With respect to the consideration of revenue, he expressed his disapprobation of extending the exemptions upon slight grounds: he stated the net proceeds of the Post-office revenues from the regulations, in 1783, at certain periods to the present year, in which he stated they amount to the enor mous sum of upwards of 930,000l. payable into the Exchequer. After urging these seve ral considerations with great precision and ability, his Lordship expressed himself aware of the possible effect of any alteration in a money-bill in that House, namely, its rejec *Ee.

tion by the other; but he wished to learn from | Speaker be directed to the Clerk of the Crown his Noble Friend on the woolsack, the best and to issue a new writ for Nottingham, until after most regular course of proceeding in the pre- the Report shall have been taken into consent instance. sideration.

The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, there was an evident inaccuracy in that part of the bill alluded to by the Noble Lord. He coincided with what fell from his Noble Friend, and said it would be for the consideration of the House how far the probable event of the intended alteration should tend to deter them from doing what they themselves might conceive to le right. However, the best course to take would, he thought, be to negative the commitment of the bill, to proceed immediately to the third reading, and then to expunge the clause, should their Lordships so determine.

The Earl of LIMERICK took the opportunity to offer his sentiments upon the occasion, which he did at some length. He detailed the nature of the offices adverted to by the Noble Lord, some of which he said were recognised in the Imperial Parliament by the bills of 1800 and 1801. He was the decided friend and advocate of the Union; he was confident of the advantages which would eventually arise to Ireland therefrom; but he could not help observing, that in consequence of it she was shorn of some of her brightest feathers, many of which were transplanted hither; and the Noble Earl seemed to justify the drawers up of the present bill, as following the example of former bills of the kind.

The question being put,

Mr. Fox said, if the House came to this determination now, they would act most precipitately. The Hon. Gent. who moved this, and the committee of which he was a member, knew the circumstances of the case, and might, for aught he knew, be justified in wishing that no new election should take place until after this Report should be considered; but the House collectively had no such knowledge. He thought the Report ought to be perused for a few days by the Members of the House, and afterwards it would be time enough to bring forward a motion of this nature: he did not see there was at present sufficient ground for the House to determine at once that the town of Nottingham should remain unrepresented for all this time. He said there was a good deal of inconvenience likely to result to the town if this motion should be adopted, because it would be keeping it all that time as it were in a state of election; for every one knew that such would be the practical effect of keeping it for that time unrepresented, and in a state of uncertainty as to the time a poll may recommence. For these reasons this motion had his decided negative, though he did not know that he should take the sense of the House upon it.

Mr. BOND said that this motion was made in form and manner conformably to parliaLord AUCKLAND, in reply, vindicated him- mentary usage and established precedent. It self from any imputation of disrespect to Ire- appeared from the Report which had just been land, or want of due attention to the welfare read to the House, that it was the opinion of and interests of that part of the United King- the committee who had investigated the matdom. In the course of the Noble Lord's ex- ter, there was no reasonable ground of hope planation, he repeated his disapprobation of of a peaceable election for the town of Nottoo widely extending the exemption, and took tingham, unless some means be taken for its occasion to state, that no less a sum than preservation different from those which at pre93,000l. was at present lost to the Post-office re-sent exist. He submitted to the House the venues by the privileges of Members of the Legislature, exclusive of between 94 and 95,00cl. lost by the exemption of other privileged persons.

The LORD CHANCELLOR expressed similar feelings respecting the interests of Ireland with those avowed by his Noble Friend.

Lord CARLETON made a few observations on the occasion, after which the question for negativing the committee on the bill was carried, the bill read a third time, when the clause in question was expunged, and the bill afterwards passed in the usual way.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Wednesday, Mar. 16.—(See Minutes, p. 506.) [NOTTINGHAM ELECTION.]—Mr. H. BROWNE moved, That no warrant of the

propriety of giving to the Report of this committee the same confidence that had been reposed in others; and if any such confidence was reposed, it was manifest from the Report itself that no new election ought to take place until after that Report should have been considered.

Mr. H. BROWNE said he should not have made this motion without assigning reasons for it; but that he thought the House would have seen the propriety of it immediately. The evidence given before the committee was now before the House, and ordered to be printed for the use of the Members; he thought it therefore disrespectful to the House to proceed to assign to them reasons upon a subject the House had agreed to take into consideration on a future day, a subject at present known only to the few Members who com