licensing, and I concur there. But I am thinking o Time is limited. But I was fascinated at the repor a nonsafety item the relief valve and one of the foot of the problem. I think we are going to have statutorily through regulation.

Senator HART. Congressman Symms?

Mr. SYMMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will would like to say I would hope-and I apprecia have been here I would hope we might get the op the remaining Commissioners-those who are not here some day so we may continue to discuss this w ciate the fact that the Commission actually did go but did not make a recommendation for a moratori something that will have to be wrestled with in the

I think when one reviews the overall question of of energy, the number of people killed when you u is important in comparison to nuclear. There are have to be considered. You should be commended y make that recommendation.

I may have a few more questions that we would that we could get some answers back for our recor and then I will yield back my time.

Senator HART. Thank you, Congressman.
Congressman Cheney?

Mr. CHENEY. Mr. Chairman, without asking an you for being kind enough to join in this event. I v thank the members of the Commission for the wor I know it has been a difficult task. Clearly, you the same kind of emotions about the subject that a Senator HART. Thank you.

Senator Moynihan?

Senator MOYNIHAN. Mr. Chairman, this is late tion, and I will not ask for an answer now, but would be intolerable if the Commission might writing to this general point, which is the key r yours about whether nuclear power is inherently t then your statement that fundamental changes are risks are to be kept within tolerable limits. You assu and can they be kept within tolerable limits. Woul ask you to write us something about how you concei of tolerable limits? I am sure you know this is an question for the political system to deal with. W now in the health area. Fifty years ago, influenza the decisions we had to make in government today

ening. The Washington 1400, the Rasmussen report use I can't understand, so many exponential powers of the najor disastrous accident. This was a small break LOCA, thing, they thought they had it bounded by covering the of a large break LOCA. Given all the possibilities for operators do, in the face of some rather compelling conhe wrong button and kept the water off for too long so e uncovery. That chance seems higher than it seemed to en I started on the Commission. I just assumed they ran than that.

er hand, the result of the study by the team that we asked e “what ifs,” all the list of things, the one other variable, ving the water off for another couple of hours than it was, ak of containment.

s me feel more comfortable, even with all human error or ou don't have a Jane Fonda "China Syndrome" occurheless, there are lots of other ways, as our report says, not cover, lots of ways in which there would have been ajor amounts of radiation from the containment. So it e you terribly comfortable. Even though it is flawed, the ce that goes back to the AEC days on building 5-foot ced concerte walls has some value. They hold. Going to per-square-inch pressure spike, you don't come anywhere open the building.

olerable? Obviously we did not do risk analysis. We did ill be you and the President who have to take a whole list ration, whether these particular risks are high enough, conomic and foreign policy considerations in the world ffect it, which are considerable.

[OYNIHAN. This is, I guess, my point. I do not want to › much, Mr. Chairman, but if you could hear me on this. e to make estimates, if we were to cut the energy conthe country by half, you would raise the mortality rate appreciable amount? A member of the Canadian Atomic mission estimated the risk associated with various forms d came up with solar power as the most costly in health se of the news of people that correspondingly fell off would help us if we were to know, since we have to make sions, well, we know the system is 6 people per 1,000, prepared to have six people die per year. We will get n prepared not to have 6 people die per year. That is of even raising these questions, but I think we need to ou, are you talking about a range that would be associated

I think our statement is reany a much more im we found certain faults that we feel are sort of und there is a constant danger. We also feel these a correctable. I think we have come up with eight s they are correctable errors that very significantly of this particular technology, and what we addresse that.

Dr. MARKS. May I comment. I think you have question, in my opinion, and one to which you w able to get a quantitative answer even of the sort I certainly would like to be able to respond to you because we have done a great deal of thinking abo can get some qualitative parameters within which t ments. It is a very difficult call.

Mr. TAYLOR. I would like to say I would like to Moynihan's question, and the general nature of t to be that your question is unanswerable, and, t certain things that need to be done in setting en light of the impossibility of answering that ques satisfaction.

Senator MOYNIHAN. That is a very important fa
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator HART. Thank you, Senator.
Congressman Weaver?

Mr. WEAVER. I want to thank the chairman for ing, because we have developed here something th this morning missed. As a matter of fact, the bigges very clear in this hearing, and that is that you moratorium on the operating licenses of nuclear said no operating licenses will be issued, in your unless these three criteria are met, and they are to

So this indictment, which is your word, is, in eff and I think the newspapers missed it. It is actu tough one than Congressman Markey is going House because this could go on for a number of criteria. Did anyone in the White House ask you not to use the word moratorium, because you

Dr. KEMENY. No, sir. As a matter of fact, may I during the entire period of the investigation, fr first appointed, at no point did either the President the White House try to influence on anything tha not be there.

I wish to say on that particular one, I think it is mission, a semantic problem as to what people hav about.

ER. In other words, they were highly trained.

Y. Sir, could I say something on that. We did have, some versation with Admiral Rickover, who is a fascinating tell you something very interesting, and we have checked any cannot get the record of an individual in the U.S. it a release of the employee, and this company does not a release. We were alerted to that by Admiral Rickover, e, I know that the Navy program is a superb training all I have heard about it. And I am sure there are superb Do not misunderstand me. I am just saying if you have t the complete record of an individual, how do you know uperb product of the U.S. Navy or somebody who has I claim they just do not know.

VER. Mr. Chairman, I have one final question, and that nate more significant. It was something that came out in ation at Three Mile Island, that came out almost by questioning various people, the NRC and engineering urious to know if you developed the same thing, because st an accident. What would happen to a nuclear plant ee Mile Island if there were a power failure, if they lost. ity?

NY. I believe I am going to have to ask staff to respond. VER. I know Mr. Taylor knows.

NY. I believe that is one of the things they are required to aring the licensing process.

ER. Check out? We do have power failures in this country; ecurred.

NY. Certainly.

VER. I am saying what would happen if you had a power nuclear plant in the electricity coming in, what would at failed and the generator failed, the standby generator e sabotaged?

OR. That is two different things.

WER. A power failure is a power failure. One comes from lant into it, from the utility system; the other is the standthe plant. A power failure comprises both. That is one at happens if you have a power failure?

CNY. You are getting into things I learned in the last 6

WER. It is the same with me.

NY. It seems to me several things. For example, the control lost their power, drop in.

VER. The answer—and I have checked this out with every NRC person-is a core meltdown occurs, irreversibile, nd completely.

to get that uranium oxide up to 5,200 degrees. But t astounding fact I discovered. I was asking one of t the NRC this question. I said what would happen. He put on the steam system." I said, "That would ha you have no power." He said, "My God, that's rig thought of that.

Mr. TAYLOR. I guess I would have to put in a sligh your answer is correct, but there are some directi pressure injection system. It may be a problem sim our house in Damascus after we got 5 inches of snow with oil. The electric power failure triggered an ina the oil furnace. So, although we are without electric heat the house.

Mr. WEAVER. I agree, and I went into this with m significance. It turned out it is the same way. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator HART. Are there any other comments? Dr. Kemeny and ladies and gentlemen, you have the President and this country and, in my judgmen served in the highest and best traditions of democra citizens. You have the thanks of the Congress of th With that, the hearing is adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 5:45 p.m., the joint hearing adjou [Supplemental views of the Commissioners and an Commission's report follows:]