Mr. SAWYER. I propose to offer an amendment: "Resolved, That the Sergeant-at-Arms be required to fur

nish the memoers of this Convention with a suitable number of copies of the collated statutes."

from Fairfield is precisely similar, except it increases If so, I would be very much obliged to him for one of the number of delegates in the committee. The reso- them. lution I offered this morning, was a proposition enabling us to arrive directly at the object of our labors, and it embraced every thing contemplated in the resolution offered by the gentleman from Fairfield. It appears to me that we only commence where we might con- these books may be supplied for our information and My object in offering that amendment is, sir, that clude if we adopt the last resolution. I therefore move correct action. We ought to be furnished with a copy that it be laid upon the table and printed. of the constitution of every State in the Union. We Mr. ROBERTSON. There seems to be some misap-ought also to be furnished with copies of the Journals, prehension in the minds of gentlemen, as to the nature Debates, and Proceedings of the different State Conof this resolution. I simply propose to raise a com-ventions, in order to enable us to act understandingly. mittee, and then his resolution or others, can be refer- I have some other resolutions upon the same subject red to that committee, obviating the necessity of laying upon the table; the whole object being to set the machinery of the Convention in motion. The gentleman from Adams has presented here what might be considered a report from a committee. That report and all like propositions could be referred to this committee, and upon which report the Convention will be ready for definite action. Therefore I consider this is the beginning and not the end. It is the initiative and not the finale in the matter. I hope the resolution will not be laid upon the table.

A division of the question was now demanded-the first question being, shall the resolution lie on the

table?

Mr. DORSEY. I hope the resolution offered by the gentleman from Fairfield will pass; but there is one single amendment which I desire to offer, and which I have no doubt, the gentleman intended to include. It is to insert after the words "twenty-one," the words "consisting of one from each Congressional district." Mr. ROBERTSON. Yes, sir, I accept the amend

ment.

Mr. LEADBETTER. I have a word to say upon the question. The proposition I submitted was similar to this, and was laid upon the table. There is no necessity of cumbering our table with resolutions, in order to print them. I am not tenacious about my proposition, but it would be precisely the same proposition as this of the gentleman from Fairfield, if it were amended by striking out "nine" and inserting "twenty-one."

Mr. STANTON. I move to strike out the words "twenty-one" and insert "nine." I regard nine as a much more suitable number for the transaction of business.

Mr. ROBERTSON. I will make a single remark. The design of having so large a committee was, that all portions of the State might be represented, and that every subject matter which may come before the Convention might be fairly weighed and considered. It is an initiative committee. It may be subdivided, and doubtless will be, into several committees. It is proposed to do that by a committee which might be done by the Convention, the committee being created merely for convenience. I confess that in most cases I also am opposed to large committees.

Mr. HITCHCOCK of Cuyahoga. In relation to the number of the committee in the New York Convention, I believe it was 17 instead of 7. I have the proceed ings before me.

The question was then taken on the amendment of Mr. STANTON which was lost; and then the resolution was adopted.

DOCUMENTS FOR MEMBERS.

Mr. LIDEY. I offer the following resolution: "Resolved, That the Secretary of State provide each member of the Convention with a volume containing the constitutions of the several States, and also with a copy of a volume entitled the "New Constitution," published by S. Medary.

Mr. NASH. I desire to make an inquiry: who is to pay for these books? I do not know whether the Secretary of State has the ability to buy them for us.

that I intend to offer at the proper time. One is this.
The Convention may think that I am for giving pretty
largely. But I am for giving the Convention informa-
the subject in which we are now engaged:
"Resolved, That the editors of the Ohio State Journal, and
of the Ohio Statesman, furnish to each member of the Con-
vention during the session, six dollars worth of their daily
and weekly papers for distribution."

tion upon

I mean, sir, that we will take each six dollars worth of these papers containing our proceedings and debates here, and send them home as we make progress, supposing that our action here will confine us to near the time when the people will be called on to vote upon the acts of this convention. I propose to submit, in due time, further "that [blank] copies of the Journal, Debates and Proceedings of this Convention be printed by the public printer, 15 per cent. of which shall be printed in the German language, and that 600 copies of the same shall be printed for the use of the convention and the State." I propose that one copy of each shall be given to each member of the convention, and at least one copy of each shall be deposited into every county in the State, and one to every librain the State Library, and that one copy shall be sent ry, and a copy to each State in the Union. The debates of this convention, I consider as of more imporate from any deliberative body in the State that is liketance than any other public document that may emanly to convene for years.

Mr.. I should be glad to know something of how much will be the cost of all this. I should like to see the figures. It has been suggested that the cost will amount to about $3,000.

Mr. NASH. I suppose there will be a propriety in having the reports of the debates and proceedings of the conventions of different States, for they will furnish us with a treasury from which to draw our speeches. [Laughter.]

Mr. HAWKINS. I propose here to inquire into the expense. A short time since we showed a disposition to be economical and to know the precise amount of expenditure incurred. I suggest whether it would not be well in this case.

Mr. RANNEY. I am opposed to both the original resolution and the amendment. I do not oppose them on the ground that it is not important that the members of this convention should have the proceedings of other States for their guidance, but on the ground that it would be setting a bad precedent. I presume that every member will be better satisfied to furnish himself with the books necessary for his information, than if they were paid for by the State. It is true that the expenditure for this purpose would not be large, but it is the principle to which I object. We have seen this principle growing among us. We have seen it in Congress imposing serious burdens upon the country, and it has become a general subject of complaint, and if we, of this convention, start off by ap propriating to ourselves these books and documents, it will be setting a precedent which future Legisla tures will feel authorized to improve upon the example we set them. I am entirely opposed to the appropria

tion of one single cent for the purpose of purchasing any thing to put into the hands of the members of this convention, for the reason that it involves a dangerous principle.

Mr. HENDERSON. I hope the gentleman will so modify his resolution as to designate the precise number.

Mr SAWYER. What a suitable number might be, I suppose would be determined by the Sergeant-atArms. A copy of the constitutions of the different States 1 would like to have. I have one, though not a late edition. I have also, what perhaps no other member has, a copy of the constitution of California. That constitution is a good one, and I intend to copy largely from it. I would be willing to adopt it, indeed, for the State of Ohio, so far as it would be applicable. I desire, sir, that these books should be in our hands. If gentlemen are rich enough to buy them for themselves, they they are not like me. I am not. I want the people themselves to pay for their own enlightenment, for I don't get pay sufficient for that; and I have a constituency who are not so niggardly as to oppose me for endeavoring to enlighten them, even if the expense does come out of their pockets.

They are exceedingly desirous of knowing what we are doing. "Let us have more light," is the motto, or ought to be, of every right minded man.

Mr. HENDERSON. I would like to know definitely, if these volumes, after we use them, are to be our property, or whether they are to be deposited in the State Library?

THIRD DAY-WEDNESDAY, May 8-10 A. M.

COMMITTEES.

The PRESIDENT. With the permission of the convention I will now announce the names of the members of the committees raised yesterday. The first committee,to which was referred the resolution of Mr. VANCE of Butler, relative to rules for the government of the Convention, will consist of Messrs Vance of Butler, Harlan, Hunt, Loudon, Chambers, Hawkins, Archbold, Stidger, Florence, Collings, Barnet of Montgemery, Townshend and McCormick.

The second committee, to which was referred the resolution of Mr. HOOTMAN, relative to Messengers, will consist of Messrs. Hootman, Graham and Holmes.

The third committee, to which was referred the report of J. V. SMITH, relative to the official report of the debates of the convention, will consist of Messrs Orton, Taylor, Groesbeck, Blickensderfer and Stanton. resolution of Mr. SAWYER, relative to printing, will conThe fourth committee, to which was referred the sist of Messrs. Lidey, Nash and Leech.

The fifth committee, to which was referred the resolution of Mr. ROBERTSON relative to standing committees, will consist of Messrs. Robertson, Reemelin, Smith, Holt, Mason, Sawyer, Stanberry, Blair, Green, of Ross, Stickney, Mitchell, Horton, Cutler, Stillwell, Kennon, Leadbetter, Quigley, Larwill, Otis, Hitchcock of Geauga, and Clark.

ADDITIONAL SECRETARIES AND SERGEANTS.

Mr. LEECH offered the following:

"Resolved, That the Secretary of this Convention be, and

he is hereby authorized to employ such number of assistants of his office; and that the Sergeant at-Arms be, and he 18 as he may deem necessary to aid him in performing the duties hereby, authorized to appoint an assistant.

The sixth committee, to which was referred the resolution of Mr. LIDEY relative to furnishing-copMr. LIDEY. I am not particular, sir, about the pas-ies of the constitutions of the several States to memsage of this resolution, but I offered it in good faith. bers of the Convention, will consist of Messrs. Vance As one gentleman has remarked that he can buy his of Champaign, Swan, Riddle, Peck, and Brown of own books, I can do the same, but the whole amount Athens. of the cost will not exceed 300 dollars, and as far as my constituents are concerned, that will be but a mite amongst 14,000 or 15,000. I don't want them myself. I believe I can do my part without these books as well as any other gentleman. But with the gentleman from Auglaize, I want to give the Convention an opportunity to do up their business in good order. What is 300 dollars to this great State of Ohio? I don't want to carry my books home, if we can leave them for a good purpose, and besides we have so many apt men here, that we shall have perhaps forty or fifty new constitutions written out before the week passes. One gentleman says that he will not vote one single cent for such an object, but I am not so particular my self about a few coppers, nor do I think that the gen- Mr. HAWKINS. I am satisfied that more assistleman will be in a few weeks hence. But, sir, to be se-tance is necessary, but it will be observed that the rious, I care not much about the passage of the reso-resolution does not appoint these assistants--it authorlution. if necessary. izes the Secretary and Sergeant-at-Arms, to appoint

Mr. NASH. I would suggest, as this is a matter of some importance, that it should be sent to a committee to make proper inquiries as to what we have to purchase, and what would be the probable expenditure. Mr. SAWYER. I am willing to make that modification-let it be referred to a committee of five.

The motion to refer the resolution and amendments was then put and carried.

Mr. STANTON moved that the Convention take a recess until 3 o'clock, P. M.

Mr. LIDEY said, before the question was put, he would like to know who were to compose the several committees which had been ordered.

The PRESIDENT remarked, that a great many committees had been ordered to be appointed by the Chair, and with a view to a fair representation of the different portions of the State,it will be almost impossible to announce them to-day.

Mr. HUMPHREVILLE moved an adjournment till to-morrow morning at 10 o'clock; which motion prevailed.

Mr. HOOTMAN moved to strike out the words "an

assistant" in the last line, and insert "two assistant sergeants."

A MEMBER. If the gentleman can satisfy me that these additional assistants are necessary, I will vote for them, or for a larger number, but until I am thus satisfied, I must oppose it.

Mr. LARWILL hoped that the resolution as amended would pass-if assistance is called for, it should be freely accorded.

Mr. CHAMBERS. In the early days of this State government, we used to have, in each branch of the Legislature, but one Clerk, one Sergeant-at-Arms and one Doorkeeper, but we have now grown so great that we must have quite a number of each of these officers. In those earlier days the Sergeant-at-arms used to bring the wood up these stairs and build huge fires himself-now, his successor in that office, must have a large number of assistants and that too, in this instance at least, with less work to perform. It seems to me that we have too many sinecures about the State house, and that now, as we are about to engage in the formation of a new constitution, we had better set an example of economy. It has been remarked that our Doorkeeper is "physically incompetent”—now, sir, if this is the case, I think we have made a decided mistake, and there will be no trouble in finding enough

who are abundantly able and willing to perform the light duties, of this station-especially at this season when there are no fires to build and attend.

The question upon the amendment (Mr. HOOTMAN'S) was taken and the same was disagreed to.

EXTRADITION OF COLORED PEOPLE.

Mr. STANTON. If in order, I have a memorial which I will present at this time. Mr. S. then presented a memorial from sundry citizens of Logan and Hardin, praying the Convention to authorize the GenMr. MITCHELL. Ifin order, I propose to amend the eral Assembly to pass an act providing for the extraresolution so that the Secretary and Sergeant may em-dition of the black population of Ohio, remarking that ploy such assistance as may be necessary for such it was drawn up by an able and distinguished citizen fength of time as they may require. It is evident that of his District, one who received the full vote of his more assistance is required at one time than at an- party, for the seat which he (Mr. S.) now held in this other. Convention, and that it was worthy of the attention and examination of members. Mr. S. suggested that in this instance,it might be proper to print. He moved that it be laid on the table and printed.

Mr. HAWKINS. I expect to incur the charge of being parsimonious, before the close of the session, but I think this resolution a proper one to be passed. It will be recollected that we now have a rule requiring the Journal of each day to be read on the succeeding morning from the transcribed record—this will require an additional Clerk.

Mr. CUTLER. I would move to strike out the words "such number of assistants as he may deem necessary" and insert the words "one assistant:" It is proper that the Convention should limit the number and it is necessary that there should be one assistant by his side to record the proceedings upon the loose sheets and another to transcribe them into the record.

Mr. NASH. If we commence by printing this, we must print all memorials presented, and which may be multiplied to an indefinite extent. I am unwilling to print this, and then refuse to print others on the opposite side of the question. I'move a division of the question.

Which was ordered, and the same turning first on laying on the table, the same was agreed to.

Mr. STANTON. Where a memorial prays for a specified object, without presenting an argument, and is read from the Clerk's desk and is understood, there is no necessity for printing. But here is a memorial Mr. SAWYER. I am favorably impressed with with an argument, upon which, as I remarked, a genthe motion just made. We all know the mania for of- tleman of ability and high standing has spent much fice and, unless we thus limit the number of appoint-time and labor, and desires read by menibers of this ments our Secretary will, to say the least, be very Convention. Out of respect to that gentleman, I hope much annoyed by applications. If the gentleman it may be printed. on my right (Mr. CHAMBERS) goes entirely by "precedents" he will remember that when we commenced life in the rude log cabin, we had but two chairs, two plates, two knives and forks, &c., and we made them do very well for the time, but the next year we had three and the next four, and, I presume his experience is some like mine, as the family increased every year, we had to increase our necessary accomodations and finally allow for some little extravagances as they came along up.

Mr. BARNETT, of Preble, moved to amend the amendment by striking out "not exceeding one" and inserting "not exceeding two."

Mr. CUTLER. I would prefer that the Convention should fix the number, and I think that one assistant is necessary, and but one.

Mr. HUMPHREVILLE. I think that the largest liberty ought to be allowed, in all these cases, when a memorial is presented here, which is intended to give new insight, and instruct us in regard to any subject upon which we may be called to act. If we have power to act upon the subject, I see no reason for objecting to the printing of the memorial. If I understand the statement of the gentleman, as to the contents of the memorial, we are asked to do a thing that we have not the power to do. We are asked by that memorial to authorize and require the Legislature of the State of Ohio, to remove the entire colored population from the State, and to make provisions prohibiting their introduction and emigration into the State. The constitution of the United States provides against such a provision as that, and if such an one were incorporated

The question being taken on Mr. BARNETT'S amend-into the constitution of the State of Ohio; and if unment, the same was disagreed to.

Mr. CUTLER'S amendment was then agreed to. Mr. SMITH, of Warren. We adopted a resolution on the first day of the Convention, that the officers should consist of a President, Secretary, Assistant Secretary, Sergeant-at-Arms and a Door-keeper. I move that the resolution be amended so as to read "second Assistant Secretary."

Which was agreed to.

Mr. GREEN, of Ross. Before the question is taken, I would suggest that we should consider the compensation to be made to these Assistants. The law, cal ling the Convention, provides that we shall fix the compensation of our officers. I would suggest that we add, to the resolution, the words "at a compensation not to exceed two dollars per day."

Mr. SMITH, of Warren, suggested the propriety of passing the resolution in its present shape, and afterwards pass a resolution fixing the compensation of subordinate officers.

Mr. GREEN, of Ross. I have no objection, but it seems to me that the proper course would be to fix the compensation of an officer before making the appoint

ment.

The resolution, (Mr. LEECH's) as amended, was then agreed to.

der that provision, the Legislature should pass and attempt to carry into effect a law of extradition, they would be restrained by the authorities of the United States. Negroes are considered as citizens in many of the States of the Union, and treated as such, enjoying the privileges and immunities of other citizens of the same States. The Constitution of the United States, provides in substance that the citizens of each and every State shall enjoy the privileges and immunities of citizens in every other State of the Union. If I am right, then we have no more right to remove the black population from the State of Ohio, than we have to remove the white population-than we have to remove any sect of christians or any peaceable population.

Mr. LOUDON. I wish that this memorial may be printed, for it is upon a subject in which many of my constituents feel a deep interest. For my part, as a member of the convention, if there is any thing worthy in this memorial, I wish to have the benefit of it, for myself and my constituents. There is a feeling, sir, in the section of the country I come from, upon that one particular subject embraced in the memorial, that outweighs perhaps, all other feelings, with regard to the doings of this Ohio convention. A majority of the people of the county I represent, without regard, I may say, to whether they are of the democratic party,

Mr. BENNET. I hope that neither the substitute, nor the original resolution will prevail. There appears to be some plausibility in the argument about disseminating information among the people of Ohio, but I apprehend that this mode is unnecessary. Our I call the attention of the members of this conven- people are a reading people-a newspaper reading tion to this subject. I suppose they all heard the res- people. The proceedings of the Convention will be olution when I offered it yesterday. I am clearly of published in the organs of the Convention at the Capithe opinion that we ought to adopt it. I dis-tal. From them the substance at least of its proceedcover that in the other States where they have con- ings will be re-published in the various county papers ventions of this character, that they appropriated lar- of the State. And now, sir, what will be the effect, ger amounts than I have proposed. Kentucky, for in- when you come to take action under it, after the passtance, appropriated thirty dollars in the purchase of sage of such a resolution. We cannot expect to furnish newspapers for each member, in order to disseminate l every reader in Ohio with a copy of a Columbus pa

per. We can furnish a few, making the many pay for forty thousand dollars to pay the expenses of the Conit. I do not believe that the people of Ohio will thank vention. Well, sir, my friend from Auglaize, Mr. us for any such liberality, and I hope the resolution SAWYER, if I understood him aright, said we should will not pass.

Mr. RANNEY. I am opposed to the resolution. It is true, and it is very proper, that the people of the State should be informed in regard to the doings of the Convention. But, sir, I am well satisfied, that this is not the proper mode of furnishing that information, nor will it devolve upon the members of this Convention to furnish it. It has been well remarked that the people of Ohio are a reading people. Suppose that we should appropriate two thousand dollars for the purchase of newspapers, at least five hundred dollars more would be required to pay the postage upon those papers. What is to be gained? You can send only a few papers each day, to be distributed in your district. To whom are those papers to be sent? They are to be sent to the Captains, Esquires, and Judges of the several counties. Such a plan would do nothing, really, towards carrying information among the mass of the people. I am therefore opposed to the resolution, for it is proposing to pay out of the common fund of the people for that information which can be furnished only to a very few, and to those having means within their reach to get information from other quar

ters.

Mr. MORRIS. I am opposed to the passage of the resolution, for we are here to set an example. I am in favor of discriminating this information, but I put my hands into my pocket (and every gentleman can do the same thing) to pay for these papers and documents. The passage of such a resolution would be setting a bad example for the Legislatures of our State to follow; for when about to pass resolutions of a similar nature, they would say, "See what the Convention of Ohio has done. Let us do the same." I think

probably sit in convention until near the time fixed by law, for the result of our deliberations to be acted upon by the people. Well, sir, simply as a matter of finance, I would suggest to my friend, whether it would be expedient to draw so largely from this small fund for the purpose suggested by him. I have made a calculation, if the resolution is adopted, and I find that it will involve an amount of expenditure a little less than two thousand dollars, to say nothing of the postage. Adding the postage, it would make two hundred dollars more, one twentieth part of the sum appropriated to pay the expenses of the Convention, which will of course, curtail the amount of our valuable labors to that extent. I suggest to my friend, then, whether we had not better look at home first, and take care of ourselves in this matter.

Mr. HAWKINS. I am opposed to this proposition, because I believe it can accomplish but little of the good desired by the mover of the resolution.What will be eighteen dollars worth of these papers distributed among the people of cach district represent ed here? What would they be among the five thousand voters in Morgan? Now, there are a good many individuals who take the papers; and they have the means of ascertaining what we are doing here. It is a favor they have not asked at our hands, and it is one not contemplated among the objects for which we have been sent here. I suppose that fifty years ago the National legislature was not much ahead of what we are at the present day. Now, sir, he who is fortunate enough to be elected to Congress, obtains at least a cart-load of books. Farther--if he dies while a member of Congress, he is buried, and his funeral exexpenses are paid by the National government.— If he is quite respectably connected at home, he is transferred to a distant State and interred, and after a while, a monument is erected to his memory, at the Mr. FIRESTONE. I also hope that the resolution expense of the national treasury. For myself, I adwill not prevail. We have been preaching economy to mire the doctrine of strict construction. I have never the people of Ohio. The people of Ohio have been com- been able to find an express grant of power, nor an implaining of heavy taxes from year to year. Their plied power, to do any of these things. I do not wish complaints have come to our ears, and we have said to set an example here, which may have a pernicious in answer to these complaints, that we should be more influence. The information which is proposed to economical. And now, in this Convention that is to be disseminated, would be very desirable, but it acframe a new constitution, it is proposed to tax the peo-complishes little in regard to informing the aggregate ple for the benefit of a few of our leading constituents of our constituency.

that above all other bodies, we ought to set the example of economy and reform, and for that reason I hope the resolution will not prevail.

who are good at electioneering. For one, I am op- Mr. SAWYER. I have a word more to say in regard posed to taxing the mass of the people for the benefit of a few leading men. Are these papers going to be sent to the mass? The leading men in each county and township are to be selected out as the leading favorites, to whom these documents are to be sent. The people of this State have been taxed to death, for they are continually paying taxes. It is our duty, as members of the Convention, to get along as economically as we can. Suppose we have to sit in convention for a considerable time, forty thousand dollars only has been appropriated for such a purpose. Sir, that is a sufficiently small sum to get along economically with, without going into the extravagant expenditure of twenty-five hundred dollars for the sake of gratifying a few of our constituents.

to the resolution which I offered. I am still in favor of it, notwithstanding all that has been said against it. Now, the gentleman on my left, opposes it for the reason that a few politicians will get the documents into their hands. I will venture to say, that that gentleman, when the member of Congress from his district, or a member of the Legislature, sends him documents, is very glad to receive them. I will venture farther, and say that doubtless he has applied for documents at their hands, that he might be enlightened. Suppose these documents should go exclusively to a few politicians in the State. These men are to a certain extent, wholesale dealers, for they deal out what they get, to their friends. My friend from Ross, has another motive that induces him to oppose the resolution, Mr. GREEN, of Ross. If I understand the effect of and it is this, that if we appropriate this money, there the resolution, it is to appropriate six dollars worth of will not be enough for him. I am in favor of approthese papers, or in other words, eighteen dollars a priating this money for this object, and if there is not head to each member of the Convention, to be expend- enough of it, I am willing to go without my pay. ed in these documents. Now, sir, I would suggest to Which is the best democrat, and the dearest lover of my friend from Auglaize, when we are about to adopt the people? If there is no other member of the Consuch a course of liberality to our constituents, whether vention that will vote for it, I shall, for I believe we should not keep an eye to ourselves at the same the people will sustain me. If gentlemen are The Legislature in their wisdom appropriated | afraid that their acts should be known, it is evi

time.