Lord Ellenborough.-Will not this appear from the paper itself? Mr. Solicitor General.-Yes, my lord, but we have returned the manuscript; we have a printed copy somewhere. Look at that, perhaps that will refresh your memory as to the contents of the manuscript ?-Yes, it purports to be the same. Mr. Justice Bayley.-Is that the one he printed? Mr. Solicitor General.-No, my lord, it is not that, but it is one that was printed by another printer, whom we shall call; we had one, but by some accident it has been mislaid. It is for the purpose of calling a meeting of the distressed manufacturers, mariners, artizans, and others, of the cities of London, Westminster, the borough of Southwark, and parts adjacent. Mr. Sergeant Copley.-I must object to that. Mr. Solicitor General.-State the substance? -It was to call a meeting in Spa-fields of the mariners, artizans, and distressed tradesmen, and others. Where were they to assemble?-In Spafields. Did any thing more pass before they left you, on the subject of the printing of those bills? I declined printing them. What said they on your declining?-They took away the paper, and said they should go to Tottenham-court-road. Which of them said that?--Young Watson. What day? It was on the Wednesday evening. The Wednesday following the Sunday?— Yes. That would be the 13th ?-Yes. About what time on the Wednesday evening?-I was there about nine o'clock in the evening. Did you see any persons coming from any house in Greystoke-place ?-No, I did not, I went by there to go to the Carlisle. Did you pass it in your return ?—Yes. What time was that?-I believe between one and two in the morning. On the Thursday morning?-Yes. Did you then see any persons coming out of any house in Greystoke-place?—Yes, I went to go through the court, and finding the door shut, I saw the door of No. 9, opened, and six or eight persons came out of the house. Did you observe who any of these persons were ?—No, I did not observe who any of them were. Was it dark?-I cannot recollect. Thomas Storer cross-examined by Mr. Wetherell. What was the day when you were desired to print the memorial to the prince regent?— On the Wednesday. When you were pressed to print that so early, you said you could not get it printed ?— Yes. Lord Ellenborough.-Do you read that paper which you put into his hand? Mr. Solicitor General.-We cannot at premy lord, we shall after we have called the next witness. Mr. Justice Bayley.-Was that in the hear-sent, ing of the father-Yes, he said he should go to Tottenham-court-road, and get them printed there. Mr. Solicitor General.-Did he name any person by whom they were to be printed in Tottenham-court-road?—Yes, Messrs. Seale and Bates. Did you afterwards procure that paper from Seale and Bates's ?-Yes, I did. That very paper?-Yes. That is your writing upon it?-Yes, it is. When did you get that at Seale and Bates's? -On the Tuesday. On the Tuesday following that Sunday, that would be the 12th of November?-Yes. Do you know a place called Greystokeplace, near Fetter-lane?—Yes. Mr. Wetherell.-When you had printed those bills, you did not choose to have them circu lated?-No. You say that you kept one, what did you do with the rest, did you destroy them ?—I burned them. How happened you to keep one?-I kept it merely from curiosity, not from any particular motive. Why did not you burn all of them?—I kept that merely to see whether the meeting did take place or not. Your curiosity induced you to keep that one?—Yes. What curiosity led you to tell any persons that you had kept a copy of this bill?-I went to the office of the Morning Advertiser the following morning, and consulted with them with respect to the printing of those bills, to see whether they had an advertisement to that effect, as Mr. Watson said it was to appear. You, finding that there was no such bill in the newspaper, did not choose to have them printed with your name at the bottom, under the regulations of the act?-I would not print them at all, if I thought there was danger. To whom did you first tell this?—I cannot say whom I first told it to; there were two or three others in the room. To whom did you first communicate that you had kept that copy?-I was not aware at first but that I had burnt them all, but I afterwards found one. To whom did you first tell this?-I told it to an old printer that I knew, an old man. You took it to the Secretary of State's Office? -Yes, I did. When did you take it to the Secretary of State's Office?-On the Monday. You kept one for your own curiosity entirely, and for no other purpose?—I had one left in my pocket that would have been burnt, if it had been along with the others. Did you keep it on purpose, or accidentally? -I kept it after I found I had only one left; I did not think it worth while to destroy it. As you would not let any person have one, why did you keep it ?-Because it was in my own possession. Did you keep it that you might afterwards deliver it, or why did you keep it?-Only as I before observed, merely from curiosity, to see whether the meeting took place. When did you first communicate at the Secretary of State's that you kept it ?-I cannot say, I went to the Secretary of State's with the bill. Were you examined before the Jury at Hicks's-hall with the bill?—Yes. I gave it in there. What jury at Hicks's-hall ?-The grand jury who found the bill?-Yes. hall? did any of the gentlemen sitting here take you? did Mr. Litchfield take you?-One of his clerks. Did Mr. Litchfield attend you there?—I cannot say. You cannot mistake Mr. Litchfield's person. I saw him in the room once. Who summoned you to attend the grand jury with this bill?—I was subpoenaed. Who subpoenaed you?-One of Mr. Litchfield's clerks. When were you subpoenaed to attend at Hicks's-hall with this bill?-I think in the month of February. That was afterwards, two months after you had printed those bills, was it not?—Yes. Are you accurate as to the time?—Yes. How long did you attend before the grand jury?—I suppose I might be there a quarter of an hour. Was Mr. Litchfield, or one of his clerks, present when you were examined before the grand jury at Hicks's-hall?—I cannot say. Endeavour to recollect.I cannot recollect. I do not remember knowing one person in the room. To whom did you deliver the bill, to the grand jury, or to Mr. Litchfield's clerk ?-I believe it was to the grand jury: but I do not know them. I went into the room, where I was examined, and delivered the bill. Did you produce this bill, or had you been examined before the London grand jury, as to the fact of printing those bills? Had you been examined before any other grand jury on the subject?—Yes. What grand jury was that?-The grand jury belonging to this court. No other grand jury?—No; one was at Hicks's-hall, and the other was here according to the subpoena. Into whose hands did you deliver this bill at Hicks's hall?-To the grand jury, I believe. Have you had it back again ?—No I have not. Have you seen the bill since you handed it Is that the bill against those persons?-over to the grand jury at Hicks's-hall?—I have Yes. Mr. Justice Abbot.-How can he know what bills there were? not. Arthur Seale sworn.-Examined by You are a printer, I believe, are you not? Do you live in Tottenham-court-road ?— Yes. Mr. Wetherell.-Were you examined before the grand jury on the subject-matter on which-Yes. you have been examined here ?—I cannot say, I was subpoenaed there and examined. Were you examined there by the jury, on the fact of your having been applied to to print those bills?—Yes, I was. Did you state to them what you have stated here?-I believe I did. Did you produce to the grand jury at Hicks'shall this single copy, which you say you have kept ?-Yes. Who took you to the grand jury at Hicks's Stat. 39 Geo. III. c. 79. Did you in the month of November last ?And sometime before that?-Thirteen Yes. years. Do you remember any application being made to you, in the month of November last, to print any hand-bills?—Yes. Can you tell me what day of the month of November it was ?-About the 11th, but I can tell by looking; it was the 11th. What day of the week was that?-On a Tues day, I think; I will not be positive to the day, but I think it was a Tuesday. By whom was that manuscript produced to you from which you printed the hand-bill in your hand?--I really cannot say which of the three gentlemen gave me the manuscript, which of the other three gentlemen, I do not think it was that gentleman, Mr. Watson. By whom was the application made to you? -A Mr. Preston came to me and said, he would introduce a gentleman to do a little business: there were some gentlemen he brought with him, and they said, they had some bills they wanted printed for a public meeting. Lord Ellenborough.-Were they all by at the How many gentlemen accompanied him?-time?-There was Mr. Preston, that gentle There were four or five. Mr. Justice Bayley. You have not identified what Preston it was. Mr. Topping. I am about to do that by the next question. Was it Thomas Preston, one of the defendants in this prosecution?-I do not know whether his name was Thomas, but I know him as Mr. Preston. Can you see him in court?-I cannot say that I do. Had you known him before?—I had known him for two years. Is he the Thomas Preston who is indicted with Watson? Mr. Sergeant Copley.-How can he know that?-I do not know whether he is the prisoner that is indicted: I had known him very well. Lord Ellenborough.-If there is any body in the way, you may remove that person. Mr. Topping. Do you see him here ?-Yes, that is the gentleman sitting there [pointing to Preston.] You had known him for two years?—Yes, he lived up in our neighbourhood. Who are the persons who came along with him? There is one of them. Who is that one?-That Gentleman that sits there is one of them, the Gentleman who man, and two others, whom I do not see here at all. I do not know who they are. They were together in the room with you?— In my public shop. Was an order given you for any number?believe 3,000 or 3,500 small, and 5,000 large. I believe an order was given for 3000 small, but there were about 500 more done afterwards. When you had printed them, to whom were they delivered?-A great number of different people called for them. Had you had any orders as to the delivery of them?-No, I had no orders where to deliver them, nor nothing; they were fetched away promiscuously, by different individuals. for them?--Yes, to different people. You delivered them to persons who called How came you to do so?-I naturally thought that those who fetched the bills came from the people who employed me. I thought by means of Mr. Preston, I should know who the persons were that fetched them. Did you deliver to persons calling, the whole of what you printed?—Yes. How soon after the order was received were the hand-bills printed ?-Part of them were printed the next day, the 12th. Did you print them on paper of your own? sits there between me and Mr. Preston. [The-No, the paper was brought by somebody from witness went down and pointed out the prisoner another printing-office for the first; the other Watson. That was one among the rest that paper I found. came to me he was one of the Gentlemen of whom I received the order. He and Preston were two of the party that came on this 11th of November?—Yes. For what purpose did they come, and by whom did they say they were sent ?-They did not say by whom. Mr. Wetherell.-Will you have the goodness to ask whether Mr. Watson was present? Mr. Topping.-Yes, I understood him to say that. Was Watson present?—Yes. Mr. Preston said they wanted some bills printed for a public meeting. Do you recollect the day when the public meeting was to be?-The 25th of November, or the 22nd of November. Did you print any bills?—Yes. Will you look at that, that may refresh your memory [shewing a bill to the witness], is that one you printed?-Yes. In consequence of what passed, you printed that amongst others ?--Yes. Did you print that bill from any manuscript produced to you?-Yes. Do you know what quantity it was that was brought?—No; I cannot tell; there were altogether 3,000 or 4,000 small. Did you print any other bills?-I printed some for the meeting on the second of Decem ber afterwards. That is one of the bills you printed ?—Yes. Have you got the manuscript from which you printed this ?-Of that one I have [produ cing it.] What you now produce is the manuscript from which you printed that bill?—Yes. Are you acquainted with the hand-writing of that manuscript ?—No, I am not. Look at it? That question has been asked me before, and I have considered of it. I really do not know the hand-writing of that paper. Are you acquainted with the hand-writing of Preston ?-No, I am not, I never saw him write. You neither know the hand-writing of the body of the bill, nor the hand-writing of the two names which appear subscribed to it? -No. Did you print any others than those ?-For the second of December. When were you applied to, to print any hand-bills for the meeting of the second of December?-For the meeting of the 2nd of December I was applied to on the 26th of November: it was about a week or eight days prior to the meeting. Who made the application to you to print those bills?-A Mr. Castle. Was any paper brought by him? Mr. Wetherell.—We do not know who this Mr. Castle is at present. Mr. Topping. It is a fact. Mr. Wetherell.—But he is not connected at present. Lord Ellenborough. He must be either connected with the purpose or not; whether he is or is not, the present fact is the mere simple bringing of this bill: he is at present a mere human being, by whom this act is done. Mr. Topping-A Mr. Castle came to you, on the 26th of November, and asked you to print bills for the second of December?-Yes; I told Mr. Castle I would not. How many did he desire you to print?— Four thousand small, and 500 posting bills or placards. Have you got one in your pocket?-I have one of the large ones in my pocket. This is one of those you printed in consequence of that order given you on the 26th of November?-Yes. Were you directed to carry them to any and what place when printed ?-When Mr. Castle left the order, I told him I would not take the order unless I was to be paid for the former bills, and he told me to make the order out in his name, and he would pay me. You had not been paid for the bills you had previously printed?-No. How soon did you print them ?-In a day or two. To what place did you take them?—I sent them down by my apprentice to Mr. Hooper in Greystoke place. I ask you whether you took any of the bills you printed to any and what place?—I took none myself. Some were delivered to your apprentice?— Yes, some were delivered to my apprentice, to be delivered. What was done with the rest?-They were fetched away by different individuals. Who were those individuals?-That gentleman (Watson) fetched away some of them; I had not then the pleasure of knowing Mr. Watson, I knew Preston very well. How many did Mr. Watson fetch away?— About five-and-twenty. Of which bills, the large or the small? The large bills. Do you recollect when it was that he fetched them? Yes; it might be two or three days VOL. XXXII. from the time of his giving the order; about the 28th, I should think it was. Had you any conversation with Mr. Watson, as to the manuscript from which those were printed No, I had no conversation with Mr. Watson about any manuscript. Had you no conversation with him at all, when he fetched away the bills?-I might have said something, but I cannot call to remembrance what conversation we had; I dare say we conversed about politics, as well as about the bills. My question was, whether you had any conversation about the bills?-No; about Mr. 'Castle, I had. You took none of them yourself to any place? No, no further than delivering them to people who called. Were you ever paid for the printing the latter bills?-No; I was never paid for the latter ones. Were you paid for the former?-Yes; I was paid by different individuals who brought me the money; Mr. Castle brought me some money, for which I gave him a receipt. You cannot call to mind any other individuals?—No, I cannot. Arthur Seale cross-examined by What became of the manuscript of that last bill?—I believe it was sent or given to one of the persons. Do you know, yourself, what has become of it?No, I do not. When did you last see it?-I have not seen it since the time it was composed, that I recollect. At the time it was composed, it was in your shop?-Yes, of course it was. Since that time you have not seen it, nor do you know what has become of it?-No. When the first order was given you, who delivered you the manuscript? Preston, I think you said?—No, I did not say Preston; there were three others with him, which of them it was I cannot say; Mr. Watson was present. This manuscript being produced, was it read over in his presence, or did he see it before it was delivered to you?-I read it over. Lord Ellenborough. Did you read it alone? Mr. Sergeant Copley.-How did you read it over?-The same as I would any thing else. To yourself? No, I read it out. Can you take upon yourself to swear that Watson heard you?-I think I can take upon myself to swear that he did. Do you take upon yourself to swear that he heard you?-I do really believe he must have heard me. Will you take upon yourself to swear that he heard you?—I have already sworn, and I cannot go any further. What have you sworn?That he was present when the manuscript was given to me. Was it read over so that you can take upon F yourself to swear that he heard its contents?It is impossible to swear that a man heard, for a man may turn a deaf ear to what is read. Will you swear that he heard it?-I cannot understand the meaning of the word swear further. Mr. Justice Abbott.-I understand him to swear that Watson was present, and that he read it out. Mr. Sergeant Copley.-My question to him is, whether he is satisfied Mr. Watson must have heard it. Lord Ellenborough.-That is impossible; he has said all a man can say, that he believes he heard it; that he pronounced it so loud, that a person must, he thinks, have heard it. Mr. Sergeant Copley.-What I ask him, and what I want to know is, whether he believes Mr. Watson heard it? Lord Ellenborough. He has said already, that he believes he heard him; but if a man swears that another heard it, he would not be believed; he would be thought rash. Mr. Sergeant Copley.-I wish to know whether there is any misapprehension upon this subject, and would repeat the question. Lord Ellenborough.-Oh, certainly. Mr. Sergeant Copley.-Upon the oath you have taken, do you believe Mr. Watson heard it ?-The only thing I could do would be to read it as I read it then, and then their lordships and the jury may judge whether he must not have heard it. Will you listen to the question? Do you believe that Mr. Watson heard it ?-It is impossible I can swear that another heard it. The question is not that, and you must understand the question. Lord Ellenborough. The question now put to you is not of that description which might be objectionable; but the question is, whether you swear that you believe he heard it.-Certainly. Mr. Sergeant Copley.-So as to be aware of the contents of it.-Yes. Have you been examined before as to these bills?—Yes, at No. 5, Stone Buildings. Was that the only time?-Yes, it was. That was at Mr. Litchfield's chambers, I presume? Yes, I believe it was. You have not been examined before the grand jury?—No. When was it you were examined?-On Saturday week, I believe. When were you first called on?-About two days before I had a subpœna left me. Mr. Topping. If your lordship pleases we will have the bills read. [The following bill was read.] At a Meeting held at the CARLISLE, JOHN DYALL, Chairman. THOMAS PRESTON, Secretary. Seale and Bates, Printers, Tottenham-Court-Road. [The Manuscript was read.] Mr. Topping.-Now the large one. Mr. Sergeant Copley.-I submit to your lordship, that the counsel for the prosecution are not in a situation, yet, to read the large one; he has not yet given any account of the manuscript, he cannot say whether it was delivered to the party or not. Mr. Justice Bayley.—A great many of those were carried away by Watson himself; therefore, whether there is any manuscript or not, does not signify. that is not sufficient; we have had no notice Mr. Sergeant Copley.-My lord, I submit, to produce the manuscript of this. Mr. Topping. Do you mean to say you do not know what became of the manuscript from which the last was printed?-I think it was given to one of the persons who came for the first bills, to see whether the copy was right; there were 500 given at one time, in the first given with them. instance, and I am pretty sure the copy was Lord Ellenborough.-Do you offer it now then? Mr. Gurney.-At a future time, my lord, we will offer it. Lord Ellenborough.-Are not they all made originals, when Watson took away some of them? Watson took away so many of them, that that |