It may require the work of ages to make this perfect; but it has the advantage of coming recommended by one of the moft able and active Minifters that ever fat on that Treasury Bench. He was a Proprietor of India flock, not coming within either of the defcriptions pointed to by the right honourable Secretary of State, in his opening that bufinefs: he became a purchaser, not because he thought it the moft advantageous fund to veft his money in, but to have the means of attaining fome knowledge of Eaft-India commerce at the General Courts, and to give his vote in favour of those whom he thought moft equal to the direction of it. He had not, he believed, a hat acquaintance with any man of power in India, nor with more than three of the Directors at home; he looked for no favour from them in either country, but he had uniformly given his vote at the India Houfe in fupport of Mr. Haftings, becaufe from all he had read, and all he had heard refpecting that gentleman, he believed him to be lefs rapacious, and to have cleaner hands than any other man who in modern times has poffeffed equal power and opportunities to enrich himself. That his government appeared arbitrary in the eyes of Englishmen, he did not wonder at; but before he condemned it, he must know that the tempers and conftitution of the people there do not fo far differ from thofe of Europeans, as to render feverity excufable, if not commendable, when exercifed only for the purpose of preferving command; for among the many refpectable characters he had feen return from India to this country, he scarce remembered one that did not feem to him to have much to unlearn to fuit his carriage to that equality which is the glory of British fubjects. But if what an honourable and wellinformed Governor had fo emphatically urged were really true, that all the mifmanagement complained of at home, and the tenfold calamities which have been, and are still, felt abroad, really proceed from Minifters having put into the direction (for finifter purposes) men unequal to the task, no better argument need be used for altering the fyftem of that government. He did not pledge himself to adopt the prefent, or any particular plan; but he certainly liked that propofed, better than to leave the Eaft-India affairs in their prefent ftate. If any other fyftem for the government and commerce, and better conducting the government of India, should be proposed, he could fay with truth, that he would make his election in favour of which ever plan he should judge promised beft to tend to the honour of this country,

and

Mr. Her

bert.

Commodore

and to the profperity of that, without fuffering either private friendship or perfonal property to weigh a feather in the decifion. He faid, for the reafons he had given, he would vote for the bill's being read a fecond time on Thursday next, particularly as the call of the Houfe muft precede the report, when he fhould confider himself at liberty, as every other gentleman would be, to object to the bill in toto, if they difapproved its principle or its claufes.

Mr. Herbert in a very short speech admitted the neceffity of adopting a fyftem of reform, for the purpose of relieving the diftrefs, and regulating the affairs of the Eaft-India Company; but as the fyftem laid down in the bill was altogether new and extraordinary, he thought the delay of three days could do no harm to the bill, and was a reasonable matter to be expected.

Commodore Johnstone did not object to the second reading Johnstone. of the bill on Thursday next, upon the ground that there was any event of information which a few weeks longer delay might be expected to fupply, but because all the members were not in town, whom he wished to be present; yet he frankly confeffed, that no time was to be loft, and that the determination of Parliament, with regard to India, fhould be realy to be fent with the fhips that were to fail in February; for fhould a delay of fix weeks longer be occafioned, that delay would make the odds of three or four months in the arrival of the ships in India. He wondered that Mr. Luttrell fhould exprefs an approbation of the new regulations for India, and yet admire the character and conduct of Governor Haftings, fince the facts were all charged upon Governor Haftings that had made a change in the fyftem of India affairs neceffary. He faid it was generally his lot to ftand alone, and fingular in his opinion, and fuch ever would be the eafe, where men acted independently, and folely from the unbiaffed influence of their own minds. That on the prefent occafion, he as much differed in fome respects from the opinions of the gentlemen on the fide of the House on which he ftood, as from thofe of the Ministry and their fupporters. If there really was as much neceffity for a new fyftem, as gentlemen were all ready to admit, he would be fair to fay, the bold propofition of the right honourable Secretary of State would be more adviseable than the half-meature propofed by the late Ministry last session, Before the neceflity was admitted, it ought to be proved. He expatiated on the violence and injuftice of intermeddling

in the affairs of the Company without trying them, and proving any delinquency against them. He illuftrated all this by comparing their fituation to that of an oppreffed individual. It had been faid, and urged as a reafon for controling the Company's affairs, that they were in a condition of bankruptcy. The Commodore infifted, that their affairs were in a very good train, if Government would only leave them alone. He faid, that during the preffing exigencies of the Maratta war, Governor Haftings had drawn on Government, and Lord North had accepted his bills, and given him leave to draw more upon the Treasury, which were not accepted. Mr. Johnftone contended, that Government was bound to pay bills of the Eaft-India Company to the amount of 600,000l. and that it was exceedingly unjuft and hard that the Company fhould be charged with bankruptcy, which the failure of Government, in their promife, had occafioned. He said, that affairs had been better managed in India than in America; that undoubtedly infinitely more money and lives had been wafted on America, which we had loft, than on the Eaft Indies, which we had retained: yet all the cry of reform, at prefent, was founded in the pretended misconduct of Governor Haftings. Matters at no period had been in a more flourishing fituation in India, fince ever we had any footing there, than they were at prefeat. The revenue was greater than it ever had been, and more faithfully collected. It was true, there had been an interruption in remittances, and fome millions had been expended in India, which we expected should come homebut the war made this neceffary-a very terrible war, carried on by the French, the Marattas, and Hyder Ally—a war, he would maintain, as difficult, as threatening in its firft appearances, although more profperous in its iffue, because conducted with greater vigour and wisdom than the war with America. The great point contended for by the Commodore was, that the Houfe, before they fhould advance to any ferious difcuffion of the bill, fhould hear the Eaft-India Company by Counfel at their bar. Last year they had excellent Counsel, he faid, of which (alluding to Mr. Erkine) they were now deprived. He himself, with fome other Proprietors, had called upon the Directors to fummon a Court of Proprietors; and in compliance with his defire, they had called one to meet fo early as to-morrow; and he underftood from fome gentlemen of the law to whom he had. fpoken, that they could not receive their inftructions, and

be

Sir Henry
Fletcher.

be ready to appear before the Houfe to argue against the bill, in less than ten days: it was for this reafon alone that he wifhed for a delay of a few days; and he did not think that he asked for too much, when there was an intention of oppofing with every argument that law could furnish, a bill which went to difpoffefs the Company of every thing, even of their papers, books, and houfe in Leadenhall-ftreet. The bill had come fuddenly upon gentlemen; even the Chairman of the Eaft-India Company had not heard of it till it had been mentioned and opened by the right honourable Secretary! for he himself had asked him in private; and had got a friend to ask him in the Court of Directors, if he had heard of it before; and he declared upon his honour that he had not.

Sir Henry Fletcher said, 'that he had been applied to in the Court of Directors to fay, if he knew in what manner the Company was to be attacked by Government; if he had been well informed on this fubject by his Majefty's Minif ters, he must have received his information either officially, and then it would have been criminal in him not to have communicated it immediately to the Court, or confidentially; and in that cafe he could not reveal what he had fo heard, without a breach of confidence: he therefore anfwered that in truth he knew not what plan his Majefty's Minifters would adopt, for they had not made him acquainted with their intentions, which was the fact. As to the question before the Houfe, he thought it his duty to vote for it, because he knew the Company's affairs to be in a fituation, fuch as they had never been in before: formerly they had been obliged to apply to Parliament for pecuniary affiftance but even then they were able to pay customs to the Crown; but now the debt due to the King amounted, or very foon would amount, to near 2,000,000l. and the state of our fettlements was fuch, that he was afraid the most fatal confequences would enfue, if fomething was not done by Parliament without the leaft delay; the governments of Bengal and Bombay were actually engaged in a paper war, each throwing upon the other the blame of being the authors of the Maratta war: the governments of Bengal and Ma dras were in a ftill worfe fituation; for the Governor General and Council of the former had carried matters fo far, as to debate this question, "whether the Governor and Council of Madras fhould not be all removed?" and the point was fo feriously debated, that the queftion was negatived

only by a majority of one; fo that if that one perfon fhould fall off, the queftion would then be carried; and God alone could foresee the confequences. He was therefore of opinion, that Parliament had not a moment to lofe; their proceedings ought to be wound up by the month of Fubruary, that the refult of them might be fent out with the fhips in that month for if they fhould not fail then, a very thort delay here, after that feafon for going to India, might in the end make a difference of three or four months in the arrival in that country after the Commiffioners fhould be named by the act of Parliament, they ought to have five or fix weeks to prepare their inftructions for the different governments in India; and therefore he was of opinion that this bill, or fome other, ought to pafs without a moment's lofs of time.

Mr. Anftruther declared, that when he reflected that the Mr. An affairs of the Company were in a state of anarchy abroad, ftruther, and confufion, if not bankruptcy at home, he was of opinion there was no longer time for delay. The grounds upon which gentlemen would form their opinions with regard to the bill, which was before them, would be the matters of fact which the Select and Secret Committees had laid before them, and the reafonings or judgment of the House upon thofe facts. Their determinations would flow either from a fimple view of facts, or be founded on reafonings, or arguments a priori. In which ever of these ways they should form their opinions, there could not be any pretext for procraftination. The radical defects in the prefent fyftem of India affairs, were already pointed out by the Committees, These defects being understood, and all the facts they expected being before them, there could be no good reason for delaying the confideration of business fo preffing for a moment, efpecially when they confidered the bill, after its fpirit and tendency had been canvaffed in the Committee, might, if difliked on the whole, be oppofed on the third reading. This was the fubftance of Mr. Anftruther's first fpeech in Parliament, and it was heard with great applaufe.

Lord ApЛley in reply to Mr. Anftruther, obferved, that Lord Apfalthough much matter had been laid before the Houfe by the ley. Committees, and that they had alfo pointed out the radical defects in the fyftem upon which this nation had governed India, yet no fpecific propofition had been fubmitted before Tuesday laft, whereby thofe defects might be remedied; they ought to be allowed time to difcufs a matter of fo VOL. XII. much

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