Mr. Burke. Mr. Rolle. Mr. Burke. Sir Richard of infulting the dignity of the House, which he difre- Mr. Burke faid the honourable Commodore ought not to Mr. Rolle replied, that fince the right honourable gentle- Mr. Burke faid he did not mean to fay that he defpifed the honourable gentleman; but he defpifed most cordially the threats which that gentleman, had, more than once, thrown out against him. Sir Richard Hill cautioned the Houfe to be on their guard, not lefs against corrupt influence than against fecret influence: the latter might fometimes be good, but the former nevet. There was one inftance of fecret influence being of public utility, and it was related in a book, which it would be for the good of mankind was it much more the ftudy of the world than it is he meant the Holy Bible. There it was related, that when Haman was meditating the deftruction of the Jews, intending to enrich themselves with their spoils, the honeft Ifraelite Mordecai went to the Queen of King Ahafuerus, who by the power of her fecret influence with her husband, averted the danger which threatened the people of God; and Haman, who was already rioting in imagination on the fpoils of the Jews, was driven from the cabinet of his Prince, and was hanged on a gibbet. Thus an innocent people were faved from deftruction, and juftice was executed on a villain, through the means of fecret influence. But corrupt influence muft ever be bad. What might be the confequence, if it fhould happen that an Heir Apparent should attend in that House, and during a debate should, by th R C his looks and geftures, endeavour to countenance a faction, and influence the votes of members? Might not fuch conduct be conftrued to be a fpecies of corrupt influence? Here Sir Richard was interrupted by a general murmur of the Houfe, and a cry of Order! from many parts. Lord Melbourne said, that what the honourable Baronet Lord Melhad been faying, amounted to a direct attack upon the bourne. Prince of Wales, and therefore he would call upon him to adduce his proof. Sir Richard Hill replied, that he meant no attack upon his Sir Richard Royal Highness; he was only fpeaking hypothetically the Prince, of whom he had been fpeaking, was merely a hypothetical perfonage! Hill. Lord Delaval fpoke in favour of Lord North, and of the Lord Delabill which had been rejected, and concluded by faying, that val. the Prince of Wales acted extremely right, in his opinion, in attending the debates of Parliament, for the purpofe of imbibing true principles of the conftitution, of which he was born to be one day the guardian and protector. Sir Richard Hill faid, that for fuch purposes as these men- Sir Richard tioned by the noble Lord, he had no objection to the prefence Hill. of the Prince in that house. The bill was ordered to be read a fecond time on that day fe'nnight. Mr. Fox moved the order of the day for the Houfe to go Mr. Fox. into a Committee on the ftate of the nation. The Earl of Surry begged to know from the right honou- The Earl of rable gentleman on the Treafury Bench, whether he would Surry. be pleased to give the Houfe the fatisfaction to inform them whether a diffolution would take place before the India bill fhould have been difpofed of. He had a petition from the town of Sheffield, for a bill that was abfolutely neceffary for that town to carry on its bufinefs; but as the idea of a diffolution pervaded men's minds in every quarter, the people of Sheffield did not think it prudent to apply to the House at prefent, left after they fhould have proceeded fome way in the bill the Parliament thould be diffolved, and they should thereby lose both their money and their pains. Mr. Fox faid, that for his part, let the honourable gentle- Mr. Fox. man give what anfwer he pleafed, or no answer, that would not fatisfy him, or prevent him from going into the Committee. The Solicitor Genera! hoped that his right honourable friend The Soliciwould give no answer at all to the queftion. He wished this tor General, country might never have a Minifter who fhould fuffer him felt General self to be drawn in to pledge himself not to advise the Crown in any given contingency, to exercise his prerogative to dif folve his Parliament. And he equally wifhed that this country might never have a King, who would tie himself down upon every occafion not to exercise this prerogative, even when it fhould feem to himself, and to his Minifters, adviseable to diffolve the Parliament. Did gentlemen wish to ftrip the Crown of this prerogative? Let them bring in a bill for that purpose, as was done in the reign of Charles I. which fhould declare that the Parliament fhould not be diffolved without their own confent: fuch a bill once paffed into a law, would of course become part of the conftitution; and then he would have no objection to it. But he would appeal to the judgment and decency of the Houfe, whether it would be proper to be continually calling upon the Minister and the Crown for anfwers and explanations. After the Revolution, an addrefs had been prefented to the King, by the House of Commons, to requeft his Majefty (William III.) would inform them by whom he had been advised to give his negative to a bill that had been presented to him for his royal affent. An answer was given, which happened not to please fome men, who moved for another address, in order to obtain a more explicit anfwer; but the good sense of the House interpofed, and quafhed the proceeding. General Conway faid, that a molt unconftitutional doctrine Conway. had been advanced by the right honourable gentleman at the head of his Majefty's Treafury fome few days ago, of which he took notice at the time; but the right honourable gentle man did not think proper to take any notice of his animadverfions. He faid, that it was his duty, as a Minifter of the Crown, not to make any comments on the King's anfwer. Now, as he had all his life been taught to look upon every anfwer from his Majefty, and fpeech from the Throne, to be the answer and fpeech which the Minifter puts into his mouth, the Minifter of courfe muft know the meaning of what he himself advifed; and as he is refponfible for both, he ought of courfe to explain them, when they appeared not to be fufficiently understood. To refufe therefore to give an explanation, under the pretence that an answer was the answer of his Majefty, was, in his opinion, unconstitutional, unparliamentary, and deftructive of that freedom of debate which makes it neceffary for every fpeech and aniwer from the Throne to be in fact the fpeech and anfwer of the Ministry. The The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied, that his reafon for The Channot thinking it proper to give any explanation of an answer cellor of the Exchequer. was, that it was not conftitutional, and for this reafon the answer being, as it unquestionably was, according to parliamentary ufage, the antwer of the Minifter, for which anfwer, be its meaning what it might, he must be responsible, as a Minifter who advised it; he was of opinion that it would be improper to give, in his place in the House of Commons, as a member, an explanation, for which he was not refponfible, of an anfwer, for which, as Minifter, he was refponfible. General Conway faid this was not fatisfactory.. The Speaker left the chair, and the Houfe went into the Committee, Mr. Huffey in the chair. Lord Charles Spencer rofe, and faid, that notwithstanding Ld. Charles the want of habit of speaking in the Houfe, and his natural Spencer. timidity in that refpect, he could without great difficulty find courage fufficient to offer a refolution to the Committee, which was become neceffary to the welfare of this country. The Houfe of Commons had already declared, in the most unequivocal terms, their want of confidence in the prefent Administration by what arts they ftill maintained their fituation he knew not, but he was certain when his Majefty fhould be convinced that the House of Commons could not confide in his prefent Minifters, he would that inflant withdraw his confidence from them. The refolution which he had to offer followed naturally thofe to which the Houfe had already agreed it was the moft moderate that could be propofed in our present fad fituation, and would, he flattered himself, have every good effect; the kingdom would again fee a fettled, efficient Adminiftration, who would have the confidence of the Houfe of Commons, and confequently of his Majefty, who ever had and ever would, when not deceived by bad counsellors, give attention to the wifhes of his people, and of his faithful Commons. His Lordship concluded with moving to refolve, "That it having been declared to be the opinion of this House, that in the prefent fituation of his Majefty's dominions it is peculiarly neceffary there fhould be an Adminiftration that has the confidence of this Houfe, and of the public; and that the appointments of his Majefty's present Minifters were accompanied by circumftances new and extraordinary, and fuch as do not conciliate or engage the confidence of this Houfe; the continuance of the prefent Minifters in trufts of the highest importance and refponfibility, is VOL. XII. 4 F contrary Mr. Baker. ! Mr. Powys. contrary to conftitutional principles, and injurious to the interefts of his Majefty and his people." Mr. Baker feconded the motion: he recapitulated the general arguments in fupport of it, and called upon Minifters to know if there were any grounds for certain rumours, now in circulation, of an alarming nature? Rumour faid, that monied men in the city had joined together, and offered to furnish Governrnent with a very large fum, for the purpose of enabling Minifters to diffolve the Parliament, and corrupt their conftituents. If these rutnours were true, a deeper wound was given to the conftitution than any it had yet received, and a fourth eftate was created with a witnefs. Mr. Baker commented upon this with great pointedness and ingenuity. Mr. Powys rofe next, and faid, as the two refolutions, to which the prefent refolution was declared to be a neceffary confequence, were voted at fix o'clock laft Tuesday morning, when gentlemen were quite exhaufted, and unable to enter into a debate on matters fo extremely important, he rejoiced at the fubject of them being now brought forward, when a fair opportunity for difcuffing it offered. He faid he had not been in town before the holidays, when the honourable gentleman who fpoke laft had made his motion on the 17th of December, or he should have voted with him. At this time, he observed, the two great parties into which that Houfe was divided, had, at the head of each of them a man of high honour, and tranfcendent abilities. Both of them characters to whom the country muft neceffarily look up with admiration and confidence. He did not like the ground on which the prefent Minifters came into office; but as they were there, he had rather they fhould not go out. He faid he had a great predilection for Mr. Pitt; he had alfo as ftrong a predilection for Mr. Fox, notwithstanding he could not approve of his coalition with the noble Lord in the blue ribband. He admired and acknowledged his great talents, and he would freely declare, he thought his ambition laudable and honourable. He must at the fame time fay, he believed he did not care by what means he gratified it. He had long wifhed the two right honourable gentlemen could have acted together; but then he would acknowledge he faw the difficulty. The noble Lord in the blue ribband could not be difgraced, without the right honourable gentleman's being difgraced at the fame time: the difgrace of either must be the difgrace of both. The noble Lord now fhone with a reflected luftre, with a borrowed light. He was a man not laudandus, but ornandus, tollendus ! |