MONDAY, MARCH 5, 1951.

RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN FISCAL YEAR APPROPRIATIONS AND PROGRAMS

Mr. STIGLER. Mr. Granger, we are glad to have you and your associates back with us this morning. When we recessed last night we were discussing forest pest control. I wonder if you have a further statement to make on that before we go on to another item.

Mr. WHEELER. Mr. Chairman, I believe we had finished consideration of the Forest Pest Control Act. But we have prepared, and we suggest for insertion in the record at this point, if the committee is agreeable, a table which shows the relationship between the fiscal year appropriations and the crop year or control year programs. This is somewhat complicated, and I believe the table will help to clarify it. The table also shows the relationship of the funds spent and requested to the workload involved, and also, in response to the questioning of yesterday, there is an indication of the additional funds that would be needed to complete these two main programs. We would be glad to insert that, and unless there are further questions, I would suggest that project 2, white pine blister rust, is the subject for discussion this morning.

Mr. STIGLER. It may be inserted.
(The material referred to follows:)

1 Estimated to complete. Best estimate available at this time.

Mr. GRANGER. I would just like to make one additional comment on that, if I may.

Mr. STIGLER. All right, sir.

Mr. GRANGER. The question was raised yesterday as to the financing of this and the extent to which that characterizes it as a defense undertaking. As I said yesterday, this began long before there was any defense situation, and it was projected by those who propose to undertake this mill, and by the Forest Service, as an ordinary development, designed to utilize this valuable Englemann spruce timber for pulp and paper.

It is proceeding as an ordinary development, with financing to be sought in the customary ways, through a combination of private capital and perhaps they had in mind borrowing from the RFC in the regular manner.

I am not sure whether or not they did. But, in any event, it, like a great many other proposed undertakings at the present time, has now turned in part to the possibility of a loan under the Defense Production Act.

So that it is in the same category as a good many other undertakings with respect to the place where they are looking for funds at this time. But, in essence, it was not started as a defense project.

Mr. HORAN. What is the reason for the change-over from private sources to a defense production loan?

Mr. GRANGER. I cannot tell you just exactly what impelled them to seek it as a possible source of funds, except that I say it does seem to be common to a great number of other undertakings.

There are two proposed projects now on the books in Alaska. They are endeavoring to get some financing in the same way, particularly this newer one, which has recently been revised, up in Petersburg.

As to the other one, I am not sure whether that has in mind any defense financing or not. I think not, at the moment.

WHITE PINE BLISTER RUST

Mr. STIGLER. We will now turn to the white pine blister rust. We will be glad to hear your statement on that, Mr. Granger. Mr. GRANGER. As you will observe, there is a slight decrease this year in the requested amount.

Mr. STIGLER. $22,000, I believe.

Mr. GRANGER. Yes. In general, it is proposed to carry along the program in the same way as it has been carried on for a number of years, substantially at the same level—the same nature of operation. It is focused more directly during recent years on the protection of the areas of highest value and highest potentialities.

The committee may remember that we made a pretty careful study, particularly on the national forest part of it, in the white pine territory in the West, to determine the economic justification for the undertaking and came out with a pretty careful selection of the general area and nature of areas in which we would continue the program.

It is focused on those areas at the present time, and will continue so to be.

Mr. ANDERSEN. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. STIGLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANDERSEN. How much have we expended on this work since the inception of the program? I am referring to white pine blister rust control.

Mr. GRANGER. I do not have that figure at hand.

Does anybody here have the figure?

Mr. ANDERSEN. You can put the correct figure in the record, but can you give us an approximate idea of that now?

Mr. SHEALS. We have it here from 1916 on. In all it totalsMr. ANDERSEN. Has the program been in operation since 1916? Mr. SHEALS. Yes. The total shows $10,071,214

Mr. ANDERSEN. You are referring to State contributions? Mr. SHEALS. That is State contributions alone. The grand total of all the Federal funds is $62,308,029. That includes over $20 million of the emergency funds, including NRA, WPA, and so forth.

Mr. ANDERSEN. I understand that approximately $60 million has been expended over this period, then, on this line of work? Mr. SHEALS. Yes.

Mr. ANDERSEN. And you say that the investigation, Mr. Granger, has shown it to be economically feasible; is that correct?

Mr. GRANGER. Yes. At the level at which it is being carried on now, and with reference to the area in which the work is being prosecuted, the values are so high that there is not any question about that in the way of justification.

Mr. ANDERSEN. The quantity of timber that it attacks is so vast that the expenditure of this money each year is justified, in your opinion; is that right?

Mr. GRANGER. We think so. The danger is not so much to the old growth timber, Mr. Andersen. This disease attacks primarily the young timber. The perpetuation of the white pine timber, particularly in the Inland Empire, is dependent upon keeping control of this disease.

Mr. ANDERSEN. Is this going to be a continuous program from

now on?

Mr. GRANGER. I think there will always have to be some activity in this field. Its dimensions are speculative.

Mr. ANDERSEN. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

LEADERSHIP, COORDINATION, AND TECHNICAL DIRECTION

Mr. STIGLER. Let me ask, what work do you do under the heading there, 2 (a), which you show as leadership, coordination, and technical direction of white pine blister control? That is on page 317. Mr. GRANGER. Dr. Popham, would you like to answer that question?

Dr. POPHAM. That item provides for the over-all coordination of blister rust control between the several agencies that participate. Mr. STIGLER. How many agencies participate in that?

Dr. POPHAM. There are three bureaus of the Department of the Interior, the Forest Service, the Bureau of Entomology and Plant Quarantine, the States and the private landowners.

There is a small staff that works with these agencies in the over-all planning, selecting the territories to receive priority, dividing the funds according to needs, establishing standards for work, and providing general technical direction of the work.

They also check to see that standards are met, for determining in the field which areas should be worked first and which should receive a follow-up inspection later on.

As you are aware, white pine blister rust is conducted both on State and private land, and on Federal lands, falling under the management of the several Federal agencies.

CONTROL OPERATIONS

Mr. STIGLER. I see you have an item of $1,804,500 under the white pine blister rust control operations. Would you care to comment on that?

Mr. GRANGER. That is the national forest part of the fund, Mr. Chairman, which is used for direct control work out in the field. That consists principally of destroying the currant and gooseberry bushes, which furnish the alternate host for this disease. That is the means of controlling, mostly by pulling them up, though there is some spraying done.

Mr. STIGLER. The amount for that item for the present fiscal year is what you have requested for next year; is it not? Mr. GRANGER. Yes.

Mr. STIGLER. I notice you have an item of $527,400 for blister rust control on land under the jurisdiction of the Department of the Interior. Is that your contribution for this particular purpose? Do you do the work, or do you turn the money over to the Department of the Interior and let them do the work?

Mr. GRANGER. No, the Forest Service does not do that work. The Interior people are here. Mr. Shanklin can explain that, sir. Mr. STIGLER. I assume it is a transfer.

TRANSFER OF FUNDS TO DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR

Mr. SHANKLIN. That is right, Mr. Chairman. The appropriation language sets forth a definite amount that the Agriculture Depart